Emoria: World-Building OOC

3. The portals. This whole thing, I will admit, has confused me from the very beginning. I've had Kathryn and Bird of Hermes explain it me several times, and I still don't really understand it. Honestly, I don't think anyone does. At least, not everyone has the same understanding. I think this needs to be addressed. What are the portals? Are they secret or common knowledge? How are they used and who can use them? Rather than just stating these things, we need to, as I stated above, collaborate as an entire group to decide which scenarios work best. Is it good for everyone that they remain a secret to all but a select few? Should anyone actually be able to use them? I don't want to just do away with them because they have become an intrical part of Emoria now. What we need to do is just fix it. Make it cohesive and understandable - to everyone.

Perhaps, we should go back to the beginning with this.

We could analyze the original draft that was posted and elaborate where needed. I understand it, but that is likely because I helped make it. I see it with a set of glasses that others don't. Sometimes, what I think is pretty clear, others don't get.

I am sorry for making this so confusing. Perhaps, we can pick it apart from the start and rebuild the system. My character is the only one from the planes, so the changes would affect me the most, but I can adjust. It would also affect Alos and Morgarath.

As for the other issues, I think Kalon and Raptor need to talk about Alos and Morgarath. Both have the potential to be very powerful. I think that abuse of their powers will not be an issue if the powers are defined a bit more.

I have no issues with gunpowder. We have magic.

Working right now, will post my thoughts tonight.

As someone who has lost interest in the role play because of the building inconsistencies and irritations, I can still offer my opinion on a few of the things that were addressed.

1. Morgarath:
From the beginning I've felt that this character should have been an NPC rather than a playable character, but by now, I've stopped caring.

2. Alos:
I'm also rather sick of "the Thendari know practically everything because Alos has told them." If he spends all of his time in Kalon's nation or in the Light Plane, how does he have access to this information?

I dislike the fact that there are creatures who are deities-in-all-but-name roaming around the Material Plane.

3. Planes and Portals:
I don't really know how to explain the planes in any ways other than how I've explained them in the past. There are eight planes of existence: Air, Earth, Fire, Water, Light, Shadow, Material, and Spirit.

The planes overlap one another, but they can't be seen by other planes. For example, in the Material Plane, non can see the other seven.

The Plane of Air is in the sky, but someone from the Material Plane couldn't see that plane if they looked. The Plane of Air cannot see the Material Plane if they looked, either.

The only way that was originally accepted to get from one plane to another was to use the Portals. There is one portal in each plane, at least this was how it was meant to be.

Perhaps thinking of them as parallel universes will help? In many science fiction stories, they usually have something pertaining to this. Somehow, someone discovers a universe just like their own, but where everything is opposite. However, these universes can't be seen from the other. They simply exist.

Instead of everything being opposite, there are other universes with their own appearance and ways and creatures and such. There are eight different universes.

If we use the Material Plane as the canvas for where all other planes of existence are located, we can say that the Plane of Air is in the sky. The Plane of Earth overlaps the land masses of the Material Plane. The Plane of Fire is located at the Material Plane's core. The Plane of Water is located at the bottom of the oceans. The Plane of Light is located above the skies ((like Heaven is supposed to be)). The Plane of Shadow is located in the Mountains of Night. The Plane of Spirit overlaps everything all at once and fills the spaces between each plane.

Like Bird, because I helped to create these, I understand them, and it's very simple for me. I don't know how to explain it so that others can understand because I don't see how others can't understand it. I have similar coloured glasses of Plane/Portal Understanding that Hermes wears.

As far as knowledge of these portals go, it was decided that to those of the Material Plane, the Portals would be a myth to anyone except those who specifically know about it such as the Portal Guardians and the owners of the Library. It was only recently than Saila found something that was hidden that touched on the portals, and she was trying to figure out if it was fact or fiction.

Even those who simply work at the Library shouldn't know for certain that the Portals exist.

4. Guns/Gunpowder:
I don't really care about this. I'm content with what has been established. As long as it doesn't progress beyond that, I see no reason to complain.

5. Nexus Points:
I thought it was decided that only Morgarath could travel between planes without the use of a portal? This was supposed to be a cause for cracks between Shadow and Material which were seeping darkness into the Material Plane.

With the nexus points, that pretty much removes any sense in the cracks. If there are nexus points, then there wouldn't be any cracks between the planes because there are ways to travel aside from the portals that neither corrupt the mind of the traveler or the boundaries between the planes.

Also, what sense is there in Kalon's Thendari being punished by having to guard the crack between Material and Spirit if there are nexus points all over the Material Plane where creatures can travel between planes?

It's also irritating that these nexus points basically render the idea of the Portals obsolete, so I've basically wasted a large chunk of my time even bothering to create them.

~*~*~*~*~*~*

Even if everything is resolved, I won't be staying. I've simply addressed some of the things that I believed may offer help for others who wish to stay and collaborate.

I've explained the Planes and Portals how I can, but with my leaving, Hermes can do whatever she likes with them, even choosing to get rid of the idea of the Portals altogether though that would cause her to have to rethink her character's purpose on the Material Plane.

1. Morgorath. In terms of power he is seemingly the most powerful PC in the game. Considering he is the primary villain I think it should be permitted, so long as Raptor plays him fairly, and doesn't abuse it. He hasn't yet, so I'm okay with Morgorath.

2. Alos. I haven't read much on him, but from what Silvone has said he's pressing the bounds of the rules set in place about deities/Gods. If that's the case perhaps he should be revised. Other than that, I'm indifferent about Alos.

3. The portals. Honestly, I have no idea what the hell is going on with the portals and the planes! I've read about them, but just can't see it in my mind's eye. Even with Kathryn's brief explanation its hard for me to see it. I'm going to go through all the info once more and post my questions/ideas later.

4. Guns/gun powder. You know where I stand on this, obviously. DE and myself were working on guns/gun powder's origin through PMs. We can work things out and get back to everyone with details.

1. Morgarath. As long as he keeps himself in check I really don't have a problem with him or his powers. The player doesn't come off as the god-mode type to me, and it's not like we don't have an edit button for ridiculous situations.

2. Alos. While it seems contradictory to what I wrote above, I don't like the idea of a being that can know everything; but then again I don't fully understand his state of being. Is he a god? Can he be wounded or killed, and if so, by what means? Better understanding would definitely change my opinion on this.

3. The portals. A great mechanic, but I don't understand their purpose yet. I intentionally try to stay away from grander-scale things like this because I never know what to expect about their finer details. This is by NO MEANS a fault on the mechanic or it's creator(s), but a lack on my part in creativity as well as my compelling urge to not misinterpret people's creations. It's much easier to distance myself from it than to muck it up by posting something 'wrong'.


4. Guns/gun powder. Simply put, I like technology, and I don't really like magic. That should be obvious from my world space; I made my people completely incapable of magic of any sort while increasing their understanding of science. I am comfortable with science, and I like to challenge my know-how by trying to make the equivalent of magic through technology. Even then, I try to make the physics of technology fair. Guns are not the end-all-be-all of the battlefield. For example, once low-explosive powder (aka black powder back in the day) got wet it became useless; a mis-fire often resulted in the death of the user, and up until about 220 years ago, a handheld firearm was LUCKY to reliably and consistently hit a target 40 meters away.

Morgarath. Two a's in there.

3. The portals. A great mechanic, but I don't understand their purpose yet. I intentionally try to stay away from grander-scale things like this because I never know what to expect about their finer details. This is by NO MEANS a fault on the mechanic or it's creator(s), but a lack on my part in creativity as well as my compelling urge to not misinterpret people's creations. It's much easier to distance myself from it than to muck it up by posting something 'wrong'.

Well, their 'purpose' isn't really something that can be easily pinpointed. Such as if you were to ask, "what is the purpose of the southern continent of Emoria?" There really isn't an answer.

Yes. You could say that they are a bit more 'grander-scale', but most of that is just history. Now that the planes are separated, things have changed. For the most part, the Elemental Planes are isolationists and only interact amongst themselves.

The biggest exception to that is the recent 'freeing' of the Ionairus. They do travel to the Material Plane, but that is a rarity among those from the Elemental Planes.

As far as the Light Plane goes, Alos is from that plane and the portal is in Kalon's world-space. Likewise, Morgarath is from the Shadow Plane and the portal to that resides in Raptor's territory.

People cannot travel between planes without a portal. There are the exceptions, but I really don't want any more exceptions than there already are. Anyway, if you are traveling without the use of a portal you are (1) powerful, (2) very knowledgeable about and/or from the plane you are going to and (3) will have some serious side-effects.

Side-effects? Yes. You risk killing yourself and contaminating the land among other mind-corroding effects.

Portal locations are secrets. If you know of one, you better have a good reason. There is a society of Portal Guardians.

Portals also require 'keys', a series of combinations, to use.

Any questions so far?

I understand everything you just said, and the analogy was particularly eye-opening. Hopefully I didn't sound disdainful or condescending with that last post I made, it really wasn't my intention.

Raptorman: Edited my last post; I can't believe I actually misspelled it because I've been really careful about that kind of stuff in the past

Hermes, I think you mean that the portal is in the Light Plane. The only portal of the Material Plane is the one under the Library.

However, some people have thought that nexus points would be like places where people could travel between the planes which would mean that those who travel with the nexus points don't have to be powerful, have serious side affects, or be knowledgeable about anything other than the location of those points...

I've given my opinion on that, though, so I'm just waiting on someone to reply to it or continue to ignore it.

For some reason I thought there were multiple portal locations, such as one for the Air Plane in the sky, etc.

There are multiple portal locations, but there's only one portal per plane, so there are eight in all.

Somehow, I completely messed that up. But I can easily fix that. I just need to edit my post.

If Dawndeux used the portal on the Plane of Air to reach the Material Plane, he would end up in the Library, not the middle of the sky. I posted as if he came out of a hole in the sky when, actually, he would be coming from the portal in the Library.

Oh. I didn't realize you meant that. I thought that Venteux would have seen him and met him before he went traveling elsewhere when he was kidnapped. It would have given her role as a delegate even more significance than it already had, too.

I know this has already been up in the proper thread, but I want to ask it here because...it is annoying. Is anyone having problems with the pages stretching at the bottom of posts? And the fact that the links in the information thread no longer take you to the relevant posts? I am incredibly annoyed by this.

Oh. This is annoying. It's probably another Forumotion thing.

I too have noticed the link thing. What's ruining it is that there's a ?siddkljfdfoiewijegowmfoiweojf thingy after all the relevant bits in the url. There's a way around this; here's how. Copy the link and then paste it into the address bar, but don't push enter yet. First you take out the ? and everything after that. THEN push enter or click "go." That seems to do the trick.

Now then...
1. Morgarath. I too am of the opinion that he's fine how he is. I have faith in Raptorman not to godmode him, and actually I think he seems not powerful enough. I have no idea how we're going to take him down, but they do say that the higher they stand, the harder they fall. I think Morgarath can be killed, and his shadow energy will return to its former Shadow masters in the Shadow Plane.


2. Alos.

Spoiler:

I understand where you all are coming from. The "they would know because Alos told them" sounds cheap even to me. Still, it makes sense, and I don't see a way around it without making huge changes to everything. Light and Shadow have been at odds forever; it's their basic nature. Alos has headed light since it began; Morgarath headed shadow after the Origin Wars.

I'll make a few things clear about Alos, though.

• He does NOT know everything. He knows a lot, but he has gathered that information through sense and through thendári over millenia. A thousand years is a long, long, long, long, long time, and he's had many, many, many, many, many of those, even before anything relevant to our story, even before the Origin Wars.
  
• Alos might seem overpowered, but he's not seeking to dominate; he's seeking balance. He's against the Shadow because right now there's an imbalance in the Shadow's favor, and this has been the case for millenia. Only in relatively recent millenia have there been any real countermeasures.
  
• We need Alos to have a chance against Morgarath. Alos can't just waltz into the Shadow Plane, but we probably still need him to help defeat Morgarath in the final battle.
  
• And just to reiterate, Alos is not a deity. He is not seeking worship, and in fact if he were, he would quickly be punished by whatever rules the Spirit Plane.

I'll say, too, that Alos can't die. He can only Diminish (whatever we make that out to be), probably for a long time. Morgarath can die, since he was created by the Shadows, but Alos can't, because he's the actual original Lord of Light, whereas Morgarath isn't the actual original Lord of Shadow. (There probably ISN'T a Lord of Shadow; the Shadows probably had some sort of chaotic uber-Sith-council-of-DOOM thing going on. Of course, that's for Raptorman to decide; I'm just thinking out loud -- or, you know, out-type.)


3. Portals. I think I understand them. It's like Light World/Dark World found in many video games, only there are eight, and they have different locations and terrain.


4. Gunpowder. I'm totally fine with how it is now.


5. Nexus points. I see them as extremely important. We absolutely cannot have things popping out of the library all the time -- Alos least of all.
How about a compromise like this:

• Need a Key to get to other Portals.
  
• Need a different Key to just go through the portal into a different plane at that particular spot, which for the Light Plane would only include Air and Material (and Spirit, but we can't go there, right?).
  
• Can get back to a Plane through the nexus point if someone is holding the portal open.
  
• Only Alos, Lord of Light, himself, can get back through the nexus point without someone opening it for him. And only through the Light Portal to the Light Plane, and only because he basically owns it and practically IS Light. Maybe there can be a side-effect for doing this, though.

Edit:
Ack! I forgot the spoiler isn't working right now. I could take that out or make it a url if anyone asks.

I've got several things to say.

Go to ground for mothers day weekend an wake up with a shitstorm. Geez, guys, I can't leave you alone for two seconds.

Kathryn, I really wish you weren't leaving, but it's your decision, so I'll respect that. I'm just sad about all the interaction Saint will miss out on and sort of wondering what's going to happen to the Hyarya territory.

First of all, Morgarath strikes me as almost underpowered. I've got a fix for everyone. Make him a Sauron: buff him, but give him a weakness. Maybe that book he carries around?

Secondly, Alos just seems too ephemeral to me. I'd honestly really prefer it if he were just a being hosting the powers of light, much like his counterpart hosts the powers of shadow. Also, it would be nice if he had a character sheet, like Morgarath.

I have no problem with the portals, nor with the gunpowder, but I did notice Blackrock's post from earlier, and I feel sort of like the whole "caste" thing should at least be addressed.

5. Nexus points. I see them as extremely important. We absolutely cannot have things popping out of the library all the time -- Alos least of all.
How about a compromise like this:

* Need a Key to get to other Portals.
* Need a different Key to just go through the portal into a different plane at that particular spot, which for the Light Plane would only include Air and Material (and Spirit, but we can't go there, right?).
* Can get back to a Plane through the nexus point if someone is holding the portal open.
* Only Alos, Lord of Light, himself, can get back through the nexus point without someone opening it for him. And only through the Light Portal to the Light Plane, and only because he basically owns it and practically IS Light. Maybe there can be a side-effect for doing this, though.

I am too seeing the problem of everyone coming through the Library.

However, having Nexus Points kind of defeats the purpose of the Portals.

Anyway, I have come up with a compromise that has everything to do with an error I made earlier that just might solve this. ("What? Hermes made an error? I thought she knew everything about the Planes." Yes. I did.)

So, out of the dusts of my error comes a possible solution. What if the Eight Portals are ALL viewable from the Material Plane?

The Light Portal can be seen in a specific location on the Material Plane, so can the Shadow Portal, etc.

This way you can use the Light Portal to travel to the Light Plane AND you can take that same portal back to the Material Plane, but you will not come out through the Library, you will come out through the copy of the Light Portal on the Material Plane. You will essentially come out precisely where you when in.

But, what of the Material Portal? I was thinking that it, and it alone, could reach all the other Planes, if and only if, the correct combination is used.

Yes. That will make it more powerful, but all the reason for it to be guarded.

Does that make sense and does that solve the issue?

Buzz, the Hyarya territory has always been yours. When I leave, it will still be yours to do with as you please.

Hermes, my one problem with that is that it eliminates the ability for creatures of other planes to travel to planes that aren't Material. Ionairus from Air can't travel to Fire or to Earth or to Water without first traveling to the Material Portal. Thus, they wouldn't be able to be recluses as you've said they are.

Hermes, my one problem with that is that it eliminates the ability for creatures of other planes to travel to planes that aren't Material. Ionairus from Air can't travel to Fire or to Earth or to Water without first traveling to the Material Portal. Thus, they wouldn't be able to be recluses as you've said they are.

Perhaps, with the right combination, any portal could be used to travel to any other plane. You would still come out of the portal you used if traveling to the Material Plane. The only problem with this would be that the Material Portal would not be so special anymore.

Perhaps, the combination for using the Air Portal to get to the Plane of Air would be different than using the Material Portal to travel to the Plane of Air. That or the Material Portal would just not be so different.

Another idea would be to allow the Spirit Plane to only be accessed by the Material Portal (or through death).

:: shrugs :: That sounds fine. Do what you will. =3

@ buzzwulf: ephemeral ? As in short-lived? Are you sure that's the right word...?

I like the idea of giving Morgarath a Book of Power. ^^
I suppose I could make a character sheet for Alos, even if I intended him as an NPC.


@ Hermes: I like that idea!! That way there aren't nexus points, which means no side-effects. ^^ I imagine you can still get to different Planes using the portals in different Planes. (did that make sense?) For example, you could still get from Air to Fire using the Air Portal, but to get there from the Material you would have to use the Material Portal, because that's the only one that's anywhere close to the Fire Plane.

So my one-way portal on the Material located on top of the big mountain in Aendrel would only go to the Light Plane, whereas the Light Portal on the other side could go to Material or Air--and maybe Earth.

That's if you see them as gates to a different dimension in the same spot, though. If you see them as wormholes to different spots in a different dimension, then each Main Portal in each Plane could go to any Plane, while there could be Minor Portals in each Plane connected to some other Planes.

So like, the Eight Greater Portals, and the... say... the 25-or-so Lesser Portals. (probably 6 in the Material, probably 2 in Light, 2 in Air, 5 in Earth, 4 in Fire, 2 in Shadow, and 3 in Water.)

This will let us put a MUCH greater emphasis on Keys, and will enable us to make use of all those different combinations possible with those turny things with the symbols on them. And that, in turn, will be a nice failsafe against, say, Alos turning up in the Shadow Plane, zapping someone with Light, and then going back. (Though this wouldn't happen anyway, because the atmosphere of Shadow is probably very harmful to Alos.)

Kalon Ordona II wrote:@ buzzwulf: ephemeral ? As in short-lived? Are you sure that's the right word...?

I think he meant Ethereal or less than substantial. He is vague.

Alright guys, I've been quiet for the most part, as I didn't want to drag up things that were already being discussed and all that good stuff. But, since everyone's opinions are being asked right now I'll give my thoughts. And then present an idea that Kalon just sparked.

1. Morgarath
Honestly, I think he's a type of character that should be an NPC. He is very powerful as he must be for he is the big bad, and for that very reason I don't like to see characters like him as player characters. But, I don't want to just turn him into an NPC as that would be a really dick move to Raptorman. On the subject of his power level, considering the high imbalance of good to evil in Emoria, I think his power is acceptable. However, that being said, I think he should be killable/beatable, as I hate hate hate gods/deities/big bads that are just so unstoppable that nothing can be done to defeat/destroy them. Honestly I'm tired of the epic good versus evil. Its really boring to see that same old fantasy over and over, but I knew that was the type of RP that Emoria was going to be when I joined it, so that's beside the point. I'll hope that Raptorman doesn't go ape-shit with him.

2. Alos
Honestly, I agree with Silvone on this one. And since Kalon has explained things, I'll address what he's said. First off, though he said Alos is not a deity, for all intents and purposes he is one. He has all those powers, he knows all that stuff, and the elves practically worship and he's an honest to god immortal to boot. I'll reiterate what I said before in regards to Morgarath, as it still applies to Alos. I think he should be killable/beatable, as I hate hate hate gods/deities/big bads that are just so unstoppable that nothing can be done to defeat/destroy them. As far as Kalon saying that Emoria has been unbalanced in the favor of evil, I have to disagree with that point. Looking at everything that has been established, and all the nations that have been created, the world is horribly out of balance in the favor of good. Now does this mean I want evil to win in the end? No. Does that mean I want good to win in the end? No. I'm merely stating my opinions and what I've noticed. As far as us needing Alos to defeat Morgarath, whatever happened to mortals solving their own problems without the help of gods/spirits/deities/ethereal beings?

3. The Portals
Honestly, I never grasped the concept of the portals and planes. They don't really follow the alternate dimensions as I've ever known that concept. If they did, then they'd all just overlap each other, rather than the air plane being in the sky the water on the bottom of the ocean, etc. So I've pretty much been going along pretending that the Planes and Portals don't exist. However, I think I'm starting to grasp it now, thanks to the efforts of Hermes and Kathryn. That being said, my idea that I spoke of at the start of this post relates to Kalon's last idea about the portals. I'll get to that idea soon enough.

4. Guns/ Gun Powder
I have no qualms whatsoever involving what has been established with the gun powder. Taking into consideration that early gun powder sucked, I think that the guns in Emoria are perfectly fine considering a large percentage of the populous can throw fireballs.

Alright. I think that covered everything. So, I'll move on to the exciting part of my idea!

Before I get into it, let me state that with this idea I'm not trying to up the importance of my world space or the importance of my people. I'm just trying to get myself invested into this RP again, as my interest has slowly been fading.

Now that that's out of the way, here's my idea:

Kalon had the idea of all these other minor portals. So, from my understanding the portals are tears in the fabric of the planes and these tears are capped thus forming a portal. So...what if there was an uncapped tear in Wyluutaan Jerigg? If memory serves right, the last time there was an uncapped tear (mind you I haven't double checked) fire beasts came into the material plane and rampaged around. So, people could find out about this tear in the Wyluutaan Jerigg and be worried that history would repeat itself or something and thus come smashing down the I'nak's door demanding that it be capped. Or something.

So, that's my idea. If you guys like it, awesome, we can work on fleshing it out. If not, then that's fine too. So, let me know.

@ Hermes: I like that idea!! That way there aren't nexus points, which means no side-effects. ^^ I imagine you can still get to different Planes using the portals in different Planes. (did that make sense?) For example, you could still get from Air to Fire using the Air Portal, but to get there from the Material you would have to use the Material Portal, because that's the only one that's anywhere close to the Fire Plane.

So my one-way portal on the Material located on top of the big mountain in Aendrel would only go to the Light Plane, whereas the Light Portal on the other side could go to Material or Air--and maybe Earth.

That's if you see them as gates to a different dimension in the same spot, though. If you see them as wormholes to different spots in a different dimension, then each Main Portal in each Plane could go to any Plane, while there could be Minor Portals in each Plane connected to some other Planes.

So like, the Eight Greater Portals, and the... say... the 25-or-so Lesser Portals. (probably 6 in the Material, probably 2 in Light, 2 in Air, 5 in Earth, 4 in Fire, 2 in Shadow, and 3 in Water.)

This will let us put a MUCH greater emphasis on Keys, and will enable us to make use of all those different combinations possible with those turny things with the symbols on them. Very Happy And that, in turn, will be a nice failsafe against, say, Alos turning up in the Shadow Plane, zapping someone with Light, and then going back. (Though this wouldn't happen anyway, because the atmosphere of Shadow is probably very harmful to Alos.)

I was thinking that any portal can go anywhere given you know the combination. Portals would be highly guarded, so jumping in and out isn't feasible. The exception would be the Spirit Plane.

No need for more than eight portals.

Also, as far the tear goes, first you would need to pick a plane that the tear would be from. Then we could work on a reason for the tear. A tear would be a rather destructive thing, so you would have to be prepared for some chaos and land destruction (especially, if you get elementals coming through).

This could also be an opportunity for the Elemental Planes to be less reclusive and force them to help restore order.

Well, the idea was that it was a pre-existing tear that has been around for a long long long time...Sorry if I wasn't clear on that point.

For now I'll hold off on developing my ideas any further. I'll wait and see what is decided in regards to the portals and all that jazz before I get in too deep.

It could be a pre-existing tear, but there would need to be a reason that people are just finding and/or caring out about it now.

I don't want to see my character turned NPC, and I won;t god mod, I haven't before and I won't now.

I don't want to see your character turned into an NPC either, Raptor, as that would be a really dick move to pull on you; even though I feel Morgarath is a type of char that should be an NPC.

As far as your words on not god moding, we shall see what happens. Thus far you've proven that you won't, but I've seen people pull 180s and go from complacent non-god modding rpers to vicious godmodding in the blink of an eye. And again, I'm not saying that you will, only that I trust people so far.

And few notes about my idea:

If it's to the Earth Plane, the elementals there are rather docile (to my knowledge), so they wouldn't cause trouble, and the I'nak are isolationist, and wouldn't really care about the rift, probably just viewing it as some strange act of the mother. So that could be why its only come to people's knowledge now.

As far as why people are finding out now? I've no clue yet. I'll mull some things over; input from others would be awesome too.

The Earth Plane would be good. Since there are not many things on the Earth Plane to begin with, perhaps no one there has found the tear. There could even be a possibly of one of the Sirearthen finding it for the first time and that could be a whole role-play scenario in itself.

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