Buffy and/or Angel fans? - May contain spoilers!

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Buffy and/or Angel fans? - May contain spoilers!

Post by Fate Flyer on Sat Aug 01, 2009 11:30 pm

I am a huge Buffy and Angel fan. I never got to watch them when they were on TV, but I did later buy all seasons of both shows (along with other random merchandise XD). I really miss them, and I'd probably die on the spot happy if they ever made a Buffy or Angel movie, haha. But how many other Buffy and/or Angel fans do we have here, out of curiosity? Who was your favorite character? What about your favorite episode?

My favorite character from Buffy was probably Willow. It was interesting seeing her gain power in the Magicks and eventually turn evil, only to be pulled back. I loved a lot of episodes, but my favorite might be the musical one, Once More With Feeling.

I loved Angel, Spike, and Cordelia from Angel. I really can't decide who I liked most from that show! I was surprised just how much Cordelia grew on me, because I really despised her in Buffy, but in Angel, she really matured, and she was actually a pretty intelligent woman, and I loved her and Angel's relationship. I also liked Illyria too.. Hmm. Oh, and Wes was a good character. Wow, I can't decide on anything in Angel.

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Re: Buffy and/or Angel fans? - May contain spoilers!

Post by Resurrection Vic on Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:38 pm

I'd have to say I grew up watching Buffy and Angel, both when they were on air and when the repeats came on before I went to school in the morning. My absolute favorite characters were Spike and Xander, and I liked the guy Seth Green played but could never remember his name. I liked that Spike really didn't seem to care what others thought as long as he was happy, but he still had that soft side that showed itself every once in a blue moon. Xander was cool because of his vulnerability and loyalty, he was like a good puppy Smile

Seth Green is just awesomeness...as was Giles.

I'm not sure which was my favorite episode, it was always about the characters for me. And, as much as I liked the series, I lost interest when they kept reviving Buffy and adding random, annoying plot twists. I hate it when a series starts fishing for hooks to hold onto as opposed to ending while it's ahead. You can kind of see lack of inspiration in the show when they're grabbing at straws and viewers.

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Re: Buffy and/or Angel fans? - May contain spoilers!

Post by Lord Revan on Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:16 pm

Fate Foretold wrote:I am a huge Buffy and Angel fan. I never got to watch them when they were on TV, but I did later buy all seasons of both shows (along with other random merchandise XD). I really miss them, and I'd probably die on the spot happy if they ever made a Buffy or Angel movie, haha. But how many other Buffy and/or Angel fans do we have here, out of curiosity? Who was your favorite character? What about your favorite episode?

My favorite character from Buffy was probably Willow. It was interesting seeing her gain power in the Magicks and eventually turn evil, only to be pulled back. I loved a lot of episodes, but my favorite might be the musical one, Once More With Feeling.

I loved Angel, Spike, and Cordelia from Angel. I really can't decide who I liked most from that show! I was surprised just how much Cordelia grew on me, because I really despised her in Buffy, but in Angel, she really matured, and she was actually a pretty intelligent woman, and I loved her and Angel's relationship. I also liked Illyria too.. Hmm. Oh, and Wes was a good character. Wow, I can't decide on anything in Angel.

Hey Fate,

This is another thing we have in common. I loved Angel, which than got me into Buffy. I am actually re-watching Angel right now, up to season 2. My favorite character from both shows is Spike. I love his interaction with Angel. Especially in the Season 1 episode where he is on the roof making fun of him.
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Re: Buffy and/or Angel fans? - May contain spoilers!

Post by Axiom Awaits on Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:24 pm

Alright another Buffy/Angel fan! I prefer Angel over Buffy, but I enjoy them both. Spike is a great character. He's definitely one of my favorites, if not my favorite. His attitude adds so much to the shows. *looks over at Fate's Angel DVD collection on the shelf* I haven't watched Angel in a long time. We should probably do that again someday. So many shows to watch!


Last edited by Axiom Awaits on Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Buffy and/or Angel fans? - May contain spoilers!

Post by Lord Revan on Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:26 pm

I prefer Angel too over Buffy. However, once I watched Angel, I felt it necessary to go back and learn more about the characters from Buffy. Which seasons did you like? Me my favorite Angel season was 2, though 4 was enjoyable as well. Buffy season 7 was great, I loved Joss' ending for it. It was really too bad he was rushed with an ending for Angel.
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Re: Buffy and/or Angel fans? - May contain spoilers!

Post by Axiom Awaits on Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:33 pm

Ya know, it's been so long that I don't remember what happened in each season. I think I enjoyed the earlier seasons of Angel and the later seasons of Buffy. I was watching some episodes from Buffy season 7 on TV not too long ago. Some crazy stuff happened then. I think my favorite part of Buffy might be when Willow goes crazy. Yeah I agree, I wish he had more time with the ending of Angel. It was too good of a show to be rushed at the end like that. Firefly was sort of the same way although brought to an end much earlier. At least they made a movie for it to end it properly.
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Re: Buffy and/or Angel fans? - May contain spoilers!

Post by Lord Revan on Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:35 pm

Yeah, they had planned on doing another season of Angel. Than half way through season 5 Joss is told by the WB or CW whatever it was. Season 5 was going to be it. So he then had about 12 episodes to give the show some sort of ending. It kind of sucked. Buffy season 6, where Willow goes dark is great! I actually liked that it wasn't Buffy, but Xander who ends up saving the world.
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Re: Buffy and/or Angel fans? - May contain spoilers!

Post by Dreamless Days on Thu Jul 28, 2011 5:14 am

I think Buffy is awesome! ^_^

My sister is the real fan in the family, owning all the box sets for both Buffy and Angel, but I watch her DVD's so yeah, it works. To be honest though, I never really got into Angel, because to me it always felt like too much of a spin-off, and that annoyed me.

Buffy though I loved. I thought Xander was THE coolest character, especially when he was in high school. Oz was sweet too, but I only thought he was cool because he was kinda like that silent type.

Fave Episode would have to be the "Wish" one. I think that was the name. The one where Cordelia wishes that Buffy had never come to Sunnydale, and BAM, instant alternate reality. The first appearance of Anya if I'm not mistaken.

I loved Buffy all the way to it's end, but I have to say, "Season 8" and "Season 9" being moved to a canon comic series was lame. >_>
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Re: Buffy and/or Angel fans? - May contain spoilers!

Post by Lumeus on Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:43 am

So has anyone else read Season 8 of Buffy, or Season 6 of Angel?

If so, good for you! And don't post spoilers Smile

If not, I recommend them. You should also read Fray.
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Re: Buffy and/or Angel fans? - May contain spoilers!

Post by Axiom Awaits on Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:09 am

Dreamless Days wrote:I thought Xander was THE coolest character, especially when he was in high school. Oz was sweet too, but I only thought he was cool because he was kinda like that silent type.

I loved Buffy all the way to it's end, but I have to say, "Season 8" and "Season 9" being moved to a canon comic series was lame. >_>
Xander is an awesome character! I always liked how he approaches things with a joke and his sarcastic comments.

Yeah, it is too bad that it has continued through comic only, but at least it's still going. If you don't want to get into the comics, there is a motion comic that covers the first half of season 8.

http://www.amazon.com/Buffy-Vampire-Slayer-Season-Blu-ray/dp/B003WJRW9I
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Re: Buffy and/or Angel fans? - May contain spoilers!

Post by Lord Revan on Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:22 pm

I thought Xander was a great character. He was the loyal friend who was always there. I never read the comics, but I was considering it. Now that Joss Whedon has the rights back to the Angel characters, and can use them in the Buffy comics I might get into them.
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Re: Buffy and/or Angel fans? - May contain spoilers!

Post by Kathryn Lacey on Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:23 pm

Hm... I think someone should put a note in the topic headline saying this thread contains spoilers.


WARNING! My post contains spoilers, so if you haven't seen much of either show, don't read it!

I used to watch Buffy a lot when I was thirteen. They played reruns alllll the time. Anyway, I loved it then, but I hadn't seen it since. My love bought the complete boxed sets of both Buffy and Angel, and we've been watching them alternately ((one disc of Buffy, one disc of Angel)) and so on and so forth starting with the third season of Buffy since that's when Angel starts.

Spoiler:
At first, they were both great. We really loved them. However, the further the series got, the worse it's become. It's to the point where we've been feeling the need to choke them both down because they're getting so bad. The best seasons of Buffy were the first two. Now, they're just sort of reusing the same plot devices over and over. Plus, this whole Spuffy thing is kind of sickening. Spike was awesome until that chip was inserted into his head. Then he just became obnoxious. Xander has always been a douche-bag, in my opinion. He has moments where he's a decent person, but most of the time, he's just a jerk.

My favorite character is Giles, but after he was sent out of the picture by the writers, I haven't found nearly as much enjoyment in the series. Frankly, while the seventh season ((the one we're currently on since we decided to stop alternating between Buffy and Angel)) is a bit better than the sixth because Buffy is far less obnoxious now that she's gotten over her lame, "I'm going to do Spike because I hate myself." thing. Spike also wasn't so bad when he was totally crazy, too. I kind of liked him again at that point, but now he's becoming sane again, and while it's still better than it was when it was just the chip and not a soul with which we were dealing, it's still not as cool.

I actually liked Angel better than Buffy when we first started watching it. However, as soon as the whole Darla pregnancy thing came along, it's been going down hill for me. I really liked when Angel went bad-but-still-had-a-soul. He was a total badass.

It's kind of weird, but I love that scene where Darla and Drusilla came into that warehouse where the demons they'd been collecting were all dead. Angel's just leaning against a car, smoking, and the girls just stand there looking at him. Suddenly, he drops his cigarette, igniting gasoline in a line all the way to them until they're on fire. It was a great moment, and his bad-assery ended far too soon for me.

We haven't really gotten past the point where Angel's kid tries to kill him but Wesley finds him and brings him back and now the lawyers are trying to get their hands on the kid again.

My favorite characters are Fred and Gunn.

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Re: Buffy and/or Angel fans? - May contain spoilers!

Post by Lord Revan on Sun Jul 31, 2011 12:56 am

I actually just watched that episode of Angel, Kathryn. Season 2 was my favorite. I just loved how dark he got when going after Darla and Druscilla. The thing I love most is, while he isn't Angelus, he also isn't Angel either and Darla even mentions that.

My favorite characters from both shows are Spike, Fred and Giles.
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Re: Buffy and/or Angel fans? - May contain spoilers!

Post by Fate Flyer on Sun Jul 31, 2011 10:55 am

Thanks for adding the spoilers bit to the title, Kathryn.

It's really awesome that other FoGers are Buffy fans too. ^_^ That and Angel were such great shows, in my opinion, and I just adore all of Joss Whedon's stuff. His stories are not only captivating, but so too are the genius ways he has all of his characters interact and form friendships, sometimes in unexpected or unconventional ways. I also really like how he can add in humor to his shows in just the right places to make you fall even more in love with the characters and the show itself. Each episode always leaves you wanting more, and that is a true art that he has mastered.


I really have to disagree with you there, Kathryn. I thought the first two seasons of Buffy were probably the most...well, let's just say it was the early trial period where everyone was still trying to figure out what the show was going to be and turn into and just who the characters were. I've watched the first season completely through at least four or five times now, and every time I watch it, I am reminded at how not only old it was back when they made that (both with how young all the actors were and with the horrible effects, lighting, sound, etc.), but also of how different things were back then with the characters.

It got really intense when Buffy's mom died in season 5, and I remember crying SO hard when I was a kid the first time I saw Buffy herself die at the end of that season when she sacrificed herself. I thought that the directing in The Body, the episode where Joyce dies, was incredibly well done. The entire episode was done in one entire shoot -- there were no cuts, and there also was no music. It was quiet and eery, and you the audience could just feel the severity of the death. I hated seeing Joyce die, as I absolutely loved her character. (I almost wish she was my mom!)

Season 6 had the best episodes in it, what with Tabula Rasa, which never ceased to make me laugh (n matter how many times I watched it). It was the perfect comic relief episode to take a break from the intensity of the situation with Buffy being back from the dead and dealing with wanting to have stayed dead for awhile. Once More With Feeling, the musical episode that captured out hearts and took us all by surprise (and that I own the soundtrack to), and Seeing Red, the episode in which Tara dies. It always upsets me watching that episode, not only because I really loved Tara's character, but also because I know Willow only is shoved into a relationship I don't approve of afterwards. The ending to season 6, where Willow surfaces as Dark Willow is so awesome, since you get to see Willow come to the height of her power and be totally badass. Even though she was evil, you knew it wasn't forever, and it was awesome just getting to witness the type of power she could possess.

Season 6 was probably my favorite season in Buffy. It was just filled with so much awesome.

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Re: Buffy and/or Angel fans? - May contain spoilers!

Post by Lumeus on Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:26 am

Season 4 of Angel makes my brain sad, and I attribute it to the fact that Joss wasn't writing or directing those episodes (Except for "Spin the Bottle"). He was working on Firefly at the time. Then Fox reminded everyone that they suck, and Firefly was canceled, so Joss want back to Angel for Season 5, which is my favorite season.

Season 5, Episode 12 - "You're Welcome"
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Re: Buffy and/or Angel fans? - May contain spoilers!

Post by Kathryn Lacey on Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:39 pm

Honestly, I'm glad Firefly was cancelled before Joss Whedon could drag it out and make it crap. While he has a flare for coming up with amazing ideas, he's really no good at following through with them. His complete lack of ability to create an underlying plot doesn't help matters, either. I think part of why Firefly is so amazing is because it's so short.

I mean, any other show of his of which I can think always follows the same path of starting strong and ending badly, in my opinion. Just look at Dollhouse which is a little more recent than anything else.

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Re: Buffy and/or Angel fans? - May contain spoilers!

Post by Lord Revan on Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:34 pm

I am glad I was able to really get this topic moving. cheers I agree with you totally Kathryn about Whedon shows starting strong and ending rather weak. The only exception in my eyes was Buffy, which I like the later seasons better. I never watched Firefly, but Angel, and Dollhouse both were better in their first or second seasons.
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Re: Buffy and/or Angel fans? - May contain spoilers!

Post by Misery on Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:30 am

Ah, Buffy The Vampire Slayer... the show that made me realize it was for the best they canceled Firefly early on. (Though he probably could have gotten another good season or 2 before it got bad... then again maybe not considering the ending of Serenity *shakes fist* WHEEEEEEEDOOOOONNNN!!!!)

Ahem, I digress.

I'll put the rest in the spoiler tag below

Spoiler:
I was a pretty big fan of seasons 1-3 of Buffy. It seemed like the characters were for the most part consistent. You had Giles and Angel, who are in my humble opinion the best characters in the show. Along with Oz played by Seth Green who was also made of awesomeness.

And yet, somewhere along the line Joss really just sort of... lost it. It's ironic, because he liked at one point to tout how much better he could have done than George Lucas at doing Star Wars stuff, yet the more time that passes the more Lucas-y I found him, and still find him to this day.

Anyway, starting with season 4 things started to become sort of a mess in my opinion. Whereas there was a somewhat consistent direction with the show before, season 4 felt like banality to me. Riley was a decent guy, don't get me wrong, but he pretty much could have been made out of cardboard for all the emotion you really got from him.

And the whole bit about him wanting to get fed from to feel alive? Ugh, you have to be kidding me. I've seen better plot twists from daytime soaps than that.

Then there was... ugh... Dawn.

It was an interesting idea to shake things up and bring her on. However, what was not a great idea was to have her pretty much act like the biggest most spoiled brat on the face of the globe and have her crying constantly: "Oh Buffy, you just think you're special cause you're the slayer and you don't love me!" That previous phrase fairly well summed up 60-70% of Dawn's on camera time for so long that I wondered if the dead horse that Joss was beating owed him money or something...

And then there was Spuffy. I'd like to think it was for the fan service, but I really don't know. It came out of left field, was uncharacteristic of either Spike or Buffy, and essentially turned spike into a whipped little girl for the rest of the series which made me sad all the way through the last episode. The other thing that was infuriating about it was the fact that it violated the whole premise of Angel in it's nature.

Angel was a vampire with a soul. The soul was what kept him from being an evil homicidal maniac. They said numerous times at the beginning that once someone became a vampire they weren't who they were any longer, they were just a demon in the body. Angel personified this.

With Spike, however, he got to become 'good' without a soul. Sure, he had evil impulses, but he also loved, and wanted to do good things to impress buffy. More violently contradictory was the fact that once he got his soul back, he wasn't the gentle person that he once had been... he was still... surprise! Spike. No change, just now Buffy got to utter the phrase: "But he has a soul now" with the same frequency and veracity of a Republican saying "9/11" or "terrorist" at a national convention.

But I think for me, the height of personal abuse, was the mental hospital episode. It was here that Joss pretty much laid bare the fact that his series had become really pointless. It was sad how poignant what the doctor uttered in the episode which was something along the lines of "you used to make up tales about fighting great evils, now you just are trying to go up against 3 college dropouts?" In addition, Joss pretty much insulted the viewers by pointing out how insanely suspended their disbelief had to be in order to keep swallowing the plotline which was going steadily down the drain at that point.

That being said, I have to admit, I think the last few episodes were a step back to the haydays of Buffy. Caleb, played wonderfully by Nathan Fillion was a definite step in the right direction. Again I felt somewhat motivated by Buffy going up against something really evil instead of Mood-Swingy Willow or the 3 morons that undermined any credibility I had for Buffy or the writers of the show's competence.

Sadly, I think the last episode was really rushed, far too much so. While the ending battle was epic, after 7 years I felt like Joss owed it more to his characters to give them a proper sendoff rather than a big fight and then staring off into the distance into a crater.

All in all I can't help but wonder if Buffy had been allowed to remain on the air longer, how much worse it would have been given how bad it was up until the end of season 7...

...ugh.

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