Persistent Worlds Intro Discussion

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Re: Persistent Worlds Intro Discussion

Post by Tartra on Mon May 09, 2016 4:48 pm

Another teeny question: are there any plans for the Persistent World category? Not in getting rid of it, but in getting it back off the ground? Its last post is a little old and I'm not sure what kind of new content you'd be looking to cram back in there.
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Re: Persistent Worlds Intro Discussion

Post by Guest on Mon May 09, 2016 5:23 pm

Not a clue. I don't know what Sunwolf has planned but I don't really have any ideas for it and I'm not even particularly fond of that section of the forum. It was a lot of research to even get involved, so, it makes me think this might be something we'll save when we actually have people here playing and writing and they/we can all come up with something together. But even then it feels overly campaigny to me and a bit exclusive at that point, because if you weren't involved in the creation of the world, then you have to do this research for it, in order to know what's going on. I'm not really interested in huge, indepth campaigns and world-building, so, we'd possibly leave it up to newer people, because I know a lot of other people might be. When more people arrive, we can have a feedback/brainstorming session and make sure that people are even interested in getting involved in something like that.

If you have any suggestions, that would be awesome. Very Happy

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Re: Persistent Worlds Intro Discussion

Post by Tartra on Mon May 09, 2016 5:32 pm

Other than archiving it for the old members, there's not a lot I can think of. Even if someone was to go the really in-depth, hyper-detailed world route, it'd probably be self-contained in its own thread.

I feel like I floated this idea a while back (obviously it was a while back, no one's been here in forever), but it might be neat to have a Newbie Persistent/Introductory World. If you don't mind me getting way into purply pretentiousness for a bit, we could play up the whole 'lost in the fog, suddenly finding ourselves out of it and here on these forums' angle as a way for new members to show off their writing the skills, introduce themselves however, and as a bit of a rite of passage, which are always fun when they make sense. Or, you know, make it about ghosts. And footsteps. And some thematic link between the two.

Seriously, other than that, I don't know what a Persistent World category would be good for these days. There wan't a lot of action happening when I joined, and since the main players aren't around right now...
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Re: Persistent Worlds Intro Discussion

Post by Guest on Mon May 09, 2016 6:19 pm

Well, I didn't think any of the oldies would be interested in coming back, so, I didn't even think about starting any of their old worlds up again nor opening them up to new members to join. I thought you meant entirely new campaigns and stories, which, yeah, I agree on, lol. I really like that idea of newbies coming into the fog to kind of get this community feeling going and I remember you mentioning that before. In that case, would it be less persistent world and more like a subsection of the introductions part of the forum? Because it would be an almost melding of IC and OOC, right? Or do you mean just straight up rping?

Because from your little description, I instantly got in my head, as the newbie is walking through the foggy woods, they come to a crossroads where sits the "keeper of the law" on a stump under the signs, a huddled figure that gives them an eerie and cryptic message but really it's a general welcome message with links to rules and such, made out in a role-player format. Like, "Yonder is the law of these woods," a scraggly finger points to a sign, etched with the detailed creed(link). "The foolhardy break them and are never heard from again! Beware the Expert realms! Only the most experienced souls/warriors dare to brave those treacherous lands, proving their skill and heart through epic adventures, told for many years to come! Up ahead is an Inn, with games and good food and conversation(entertainment link), where you may meet some of the other wandering souls in these woods. Try your hand at the lighter quests in the Casual kingdoms(link to casual) where no matter how experienced you are at the start of your journey, you'll no doubt overcome your obstacles and come back the hero you always dreamed of becoming." Blah blah, something like that. I dunno. Something fun and dramatic, yet informative, making them feel like they're already a part of our world just from coming in.  Sweat Drop

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Re: Persistent Worlds Intro Discussion

Post by Tartra on Mon May 09, 2016 7:04 pm

Yeah, if you or someone else starts it, you could set up all those points, or even just have a suggested list of milestones somewhere (e.g., The Keeper knows that most who pass by would first have to cross X, Y, Z). I feel like this site was supposed to have had a vibrant personality like that the entire time, but it was assumed by the first members and never really emphasized for later members.

As for the melding, yeah, basically that. People could RP as themselves, as their writing personas, as their characters - whatever they feel like doing. I wouldn't want too many rules put on it right away, but if people aren't getting it, then more guidance can get rolled out. And also, yeah, the section would have to move to Introductions - or else get a really clear link to it as a Welcome PM or whatever.
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Re: Persistent Worlds Intro Discussion

Post by Sunwolf007 on Tue May 10, 2016 9:30 am

Ten wrote:Not a clue. I don't know what Sunwolf has planned but I don't really have any ideas for it and I'm not even particularly fond of that section of the forum. It was a lot of research to even get involved, so, it makes me think this might be something we'll save when we actually have people here playing and writing and they/we can all come up with something together. But even then it feels overly campaigny to me and a bit exclusive at that point, because if you weren't involved in the creation of the world, then you have to do this research for it, in order to know what's going on. I'm not really interested in huge, indepth campaigns and world-building, so, we'd possibly leave it up to newer people, because I know a lot of other people might be. When more people arrive, we can have a feedback/brainstorming session and make sure that people are even interested in getting involved in something like that.

If you have any suggestions, that would be awesome. Very Happy

Yep, that'sthe plan. I want to leave it as an option for a while and see if new members use it.

Tartra wrote:Other than archiving it for the old members, there's not a lot I can think of. Even if someone was to go the really in-depth, hyper-detailed world route, it'd probably be self-contained in its own thread.

I feel like I floated this idea a while back (obviously it was a while back, no one's been here in forever), but it might be neat to have a Newbie Persistent/Introductory World. If you don't mind me getting way into purply pretentiousness for a bit, we could play up the whole 'lost in the fog, suddenly finding ourselves out of it and here on these forums' angle as a way for new members to show off their writing the skills, introduce themselves however, and as a bit of a rite of passage, which are always fun when they make sense. Or, you know, make it about ghosts. And footsteps. And some thematic link between the two.

Seriously, other than that, I don't know what a Persistent World category would be good for these days. There wan't a lot of action happening when I joined, and since the main players aren't around right now...

I like the idea of a free form area. Maybe make a FoG centered PW with the goal of getting members experience in role-play?

Ten wrote:Well, I didn't think any of the oldies would be interested in coming back, so, I didn't even think about starting any of their old worlds up again nor opening them up to new members to join. I thought you meant entirely new campaigns and stories, which, yeah, I agree on, lol. I really like that idea of newbies coming into the fog to kind of get this community feeling going and I remember you mentioning that before. In that case, would it be less persistent world and more like a subsection of the introductions part of the forum? Because it would be an almost melding of IC and OOC, right? Or do you mean just straight up rping?

Because from your little description, I instantly got in my head, as the newbie is walking through the foggy woods, they come to a crossroads where sits the "keeper of the law" on a stump under the signs, a huddled figure that gives them an eerie and cryptic message but really it's a general welcome message with links to rules and such, made out in a role-player format. Like, "Yonder is the law of these woods," a scraggly finger points to a sign, etched with the detailed creed(link). "The foolhardy break them and are never heard from again! Beware the Expert realms! Only the most experienced souls/warriors dare to brave those treacherous lands, proving their skill and heart through epic adventures, told for many years to come! Up ahead is an Inn, with games and good food and conversation(entertainment link), where you may meet some of the other wandering souls in these woods. Try your hand at the lighter quests in the Casual kingdoms(link to casual) where no matter how experienced you are at the start of your journey, you'll no doubt overcome your obstacles and come back the hero you always dreamed of becoming." Blah blah, something like that. I dunno. Something fun and dramatic, yet informative, making them feel like they're already a part of our world just from coming in.  Sweat Drop

Actually that sounds like an awesome response to an into topic. Maybe bring back the site mascot to do those posts?

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Re: Persistent Worlds Intro Discussion

Post by Tartra on Tue May 10, 2016 9:35 am

Well, a freeplay arena with the goal of getting experience is different again. The idea I had was just an introductory thread - everyone gives a one-off intro, then get into the thick of it. The point's to say, show off a bit, without having to get too bogged down by other people actually having conversations and taking away places for people to 'slip in'. If we're all slipping in, there's no problem!

A RP-training arena is still  good idea, but I'd say to make that separate from this particular thing. There, people can have as many conversations and interactions as they want, and the challenge of finding a place to introduce yourself is the whole reason you're there. Persistent World sub-category?
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Re: Persistent Worlds Intro Discussion

Post by Guest on Tue May 10, 2016 12:46 pm

I get what you're saying, Tartra. It's like a get to know ya, type thing.

I would think it would go more with Introductions but again, I don't know how that would work. Because I do think regular introductions where people just come as themselves, like Lexi's introduction recently, is a really good way to get to know somebody too. Hm, maybe, okay, so there's the main Intro forum and it has that sticky for pointers on what to include. I think to make it visible and eyecatching for those who already want to make an intro, another sticky should be added, with a nice exciting title, that links to the Persistent Worlds section "Enter the Mists" or something. So, yeah, a subforum, new world in Persistent that is a metaphor for the forum. You can have the choice of a regular introduction or you can go to the PW section and intro as yourself the "character", or as one of your characters. You could even have an intro in both. That feels a bit more manageable, as far as "campaigning" to me and something I really like the sound of, if not for just the tongue in cheek mentions and fun we could have with it.

I am not sure if they left Charlie, the Ghost open still. I'll have to dig in the mod forum and find the password. If they changed it, then we might just make our own mascot for the new site direction.

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Re: Persistent Worlds Intro Discussion

Post by Tartra on Tue May 10, 2016 12:56 pm

Yeah, pretty much. We'd still keep the intro threads; especially if this Swirly Mist thread (the introduce-yourself-througha-bit-of-upfront-RP stuff) are just one-off posts to showcase your take on the idea and your writing style, you'd need the regular intro threads more than ever. That's where you'd link to your Swirly Mists post, where I could comment on it, where we might continue on with the idea, or where we'd be fully OOC and I can say welcome like a sane person. They're a hand in hand idea, not competing. Smile

As for Charlie the Ghost - eeeeeee. I really recommend making a new mascot. Charlie was named after Fate's grandfather or something, and even if she's not around, using that accounts feels a little in poor taste. Besides, with how rarely Charlie was used, it's just as well that we get a new one if we're going that route. You mentioned something about a Keeper of the Law for the Swirly Mists. Maybe something along those lines.
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Re: Persistent Worlds Intro Discussion

Post by Guest on Tue May 10, 2016 1:09 pm

Ah. I did not know that. Yeah, ok, we'll just make our own. Razz

One question because it is a little confusing having things mentioned all together like that. When you say you'd continue on with the idea, do you mean like you'd post in the Swirly Mists thread, joining in as a character as well? Or would that thread simply be full of intro rp posts? Hm, if it's a subforum of PW, then there would be room within that forum to break out of the Swirly Mists thread and continue in its own sort of story thread? Like,

Newb comes and posts in the Swirly Mist introduction then posts a regular intro and links to the post. You come in and are like, "Hey, that's an awesome idea, I wanna get to know your character a bit more." So either you or the new person would make a thread in the Swirly Mist subforum and mess around, continuing a bit of intro and character interaction.

Is that how it would go or am I totally off base?

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Re: Persistent Worlds Intro Discussion

Post by Tartra on Tue May 10, 2016 1:19 pm

I think you're overcomplicating it a bit (with the natural disclaimer that that idea could always work but wasn't quite what I meant).

So there's one big thread or else a big category where everyone makes their own thread.

At the start of that thread or stickied in that category is the Keeper of the Law (that name is sticking, but it's a placeholder unless you want to make it official) doing the bit about this being the swirly mists, here are landmarks they would pass, these are some places beyond the mist plus links to them, and that would be everyone's reference point. It's the IC list of rules.

Everyone else either makes their post or their category thread going through all that. The intention's not really to spawn its own RP out of it, but hey, I say leave the option. But if it's all one big thread, have those RPs somewhere that isn't the official Swirly Mists thread. If everyone's making individual threads within the category, go nuts. The point of saying it's a one-off situation is so that people don't feel like they're posting out of turn or interrupting a conversation.

Then, on the regular intro threads, it's the ol' same old, but now you can post to your IC Swirly Mists thread.

In short, the Swirly Mists should introduce your writing. The regular intro threads introduce you.

Does that make sense?
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Re: Persistent Worlds Intro Discussion

Post by Guest on Tue May 10, 2016 1:23 pm

Yes, that makes a lot more sense. My confusion was mostly about where people would be posting their rp intro. I definitely think it makes more sense to have the Swirly Mist, Keeper of the Law stickied and closed and for people to make their rp intro as their own thread within that section. Why cram it all into one thread? Especially when we'll have the space for people to go to town. And yes, that will definitely feel less like a conversation interruption.

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Re: Persistent Worlds Intro Discussion

Post by Tartra on Tue May 10, 2016 1:32 pm

And I've got a feeling we're all saps just waiting to make little ghosts who've been following those newbies around, with varying degrees and intent of actually being helpful.
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Re: Persistent Worlds Intro Discussion

Post by Sunwolf007 on Wed May 11, 2016 10:31 pm

Tartra wrote:Yeah, pretty much. We'd still keep the intro threads; especially if this Swirly Mist thread (the introduce-yourself-througha-bit-of-upfront-RP stuff) are just one-off posts to showcase your take on the idea and your writing style, you'd need the regular intro threads more than ever. That's where you'd link to your Swirly Mists post, where I could comment on it, where we might continue on with the idea, or where we'd be fully OOC and I can say welcome like a sane person. They're a hand in hand idea, not competing. Smile

As for Charlie the Ghost - eeeeeee. I really recommend making a new mascot. Charlie was named after Fate's grandfather or something, and even if she's not around, using that accounts feels a little in poor taste. Besides, with how rarely Charlie was used, it's just as well that we get a new one if we're going that route. You mentioned something about a Keeper of the Law for the Swirly Mists. Maybe something along those lines.

I agree that we should leave Charlie alone now that you mention that part. I had forgotten about that. Maybe we don’t need to create a mascot. Using a separate account to make random posts feels like it could be a lot of work for an unknown payoff since all the material would have to be in character regardless of where the post is. Plus I can totally see myself accidently posting as one and meaning to be the other, lol.

Ten wrote:Ah. I did not know that. Yeah, ok, we'll just make our own. Razz

One question because it is a little confusing having things mentioned all together like that. When you say you'd continue on with the idea, do you mean like you'd post in the Swirly Mists thread, joining in as a character as well? Or would that thread simply be full of intro rp posts? Hm, if it's a subforum of PW, then there would be room within that forum to break out of the Swirly Mists thread and continue in its own sort of story thread? Like,

Newb comes and posts in the Swirly Mist introduction then posts a regular intro and links to the post. You come in and are like, "Hey, that's an awesome idea, I wanna get to know your character a bit more." So either you or the new person would make a thread in the Swirly Mist subforum and mess around, continuing a bit of intro and character interaction.

Is that how it would go or am I totally off base?

I like the idea of it being its own place and utilizing the PW at the same time. Maybe we could do a FoG based world? Maybe tie it in with the ‘teaching people how to RP’ idea?

Tartra wrote:I think you're overcomplicating it a bit (with the natural disclaimer that that idea could always work but wasn't quite what I meant).

So there's one big thread or else a big category where everyone makes their own thread.

At the start of that thread or stickied in that category is the Keeper of the Law (that name is sticking, but it's a placeholder unless you want to make it official) doing the bit about this being the swirly mists, here are landmarks they would pass, these are some places beyond the mist plus links to them, and that would be everyone's reference point. It's the IC list of rules.

Everyone else either makes their post or their category thread going through all that. The intention's not really to spawn its own RP out of it, but hey, I say leave the option. But if it's all one big thread, have those RPs somewhere that isn't the official Swirly Mists thread. If everyone's making individual threads within the category, go nuts. The point of saying it's a one-off situation is so that people don't feel like they're posting out of turn or interrupting a conversation.

Then, on the regular intro threads, it's the ol' same old, but now you can post to your IC Swirly Mists thread.

In short, the Swirly Mists should introduce your writing. The regular intro threads introduce you.

Does that make sense?

Love that idea. We could do a RP style stickied topic below my ‘Ideas for intro post’ topics that would be completely in character with the law keeper doing his speech with links. Then have him say something like ‘Those who feel extra daring introduce themselves here’ with a link to the swirly mists area. It would be in the PW area since I really like that idea. I was thinking it could be part of a FoG based world. Maybe have like a FoG academy world where we would RP our screen names and have interactions based on that ‘character’? That way it would also be the same place people go to learn about how to write and RP. I don’t know how it would be set up since we usually split things into IC and OoC topics but I think it could be a really cool idea if done right.

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Persistent Worlds Intro Discussion

Post by Guest on Thu May 12, 2016 1:06 am

Ugh! I kinda hate school rps. XD But I definitely know some people on my list of possible new members who would love that sort of thing and it seems a pretty popular idea. And honestly, I can't think of anything to do with forests, mists, and ghosts that might be interesting plot-wsie. Yeah, the newb makes their intro wandering through the mists but how do you have them encounter other characters? Maybe the school is in a forest or the campus grounds have a forest around them where people wander too close to the edges and they have the potential of getting lost. I can see people opening their intro thread by having their character running away from school and getting lost and chased by something awful.

Hm, I have a hard time enjoying those type of rps where you have to research beforehand; I come here to write, not study, and having a manual for an rp can feel a bit intimidating as well. So, more user friendly, I think it'd be nice for the Swirly Mists to be different than how the previous and possibly future PWs would be. It'd be it's own little thing. It'd have one sticky explaining the setting, which I think school is pretty common and a good starting point, especially if we want to set up that everybody here is on the same level of learning, then we'd all be students? I dunno if I wanna be a teacher character - unless I get to be naughty. Twisted Evil

But no other OOC threads. I think it'd be alright, for people to just dive right in, like Tartra said earlier. No "Who's turn is it/who can join?" Because the forum would be an introduction to not only the characters of the forum, our members, but also to rping here, none of this taken too seriously. It would be even more casual and loose than casual is, just to keep it fun and keep it from feeling like "Hey! don't do THAT! Are you dumb? That's not how it's done!" It'd be completely anything goes. If you bring your wizard to the new school, fine, we'll all walk in and act amazed or no big deal, like that shit is legit. Whatever they want. What do you guys think?

No matter what setting we choose, I'd suggest it be run that way with it kind of loose and free form so that they feel safe to join in and do their own intro thread however they want to.

Maybe instead of settings, we can have ideas in the Swirly Mist sticky thread of where people can start their thread. like the hallway intro, or the gym team intro, the in class intro, the cafeteria intro, the running away from school lost intro and offer that despite these ideas, you can really start your character anywhere you want to. I think giving them ideas might help spark creativity and give them options. Like, the ideas would be listed like,

(all intros can be started wherever or however you like but in case you're having trouble, here are a few ideas to help you out)

Cafeteria

You've just gotten your tray and you're looking for a place to sit... which table do you choose?

In Class

The teacher is droning on about something and someone passes you a note... is it for you?

Campus grounds

Something lurks in the forest surrounding Swirly Mists Academy and today's the day you decided to skip class by talking a walk in the woods... did you really think this through?

Etc. Like writing prompts almost. And above them would of course be the "opening statements" explaining the setting and whatnot.

Edit: Hope you guys don't mind, I took the liberty of splitting this off into its own discussion topic.

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Re: Persistent Worlds Intro Discussion

Post by Tartra on Thu May 12, 2016 5:43 am

I think an academy RP or school RP should be run as its own, actual RP. I'm not too keen on the setting (given my extensive experience - *cough* - with people who are, it's a haven for semi-lit, teenager-or-people-poorly-trying-to-write-as-a-teenger mess that never goes past 'Who's my classmate and can we split off into our own thing, and I joined FoG purely to get away from that thing) but it doesn't sound like it needs any treatment more special than what's already in place.

You want a school? Do a school. But until it's proven itself as a persistent world, we shouldn't force it as one - unlike the Swirly Mists thread.

WHY AM I AWAKE THIS EARLY.
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Re: Persistent Worlds Intro Discussion

Post by Sunwolf007 on Mon May 16, 2016 9:52 am

If my top two advisors are cringing at my idea it's time to explore other options. What about a completely free form area? All the threads start will be set in a foggy forest and then from there it would go completely in the direction the original poster directs. Like, if they find a middle ages city then the setting is middle ages. It would show their own RP skills and be able to branch out into its own story if enough people keep posting.

Does that sound like a better idea?

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Re: Persistent Worlds Intro Discussion

Post by Tartra on Mon May 16, 2016 10:38 am

I think my emails shut off or something. :/ Looks like I'll be checking in manually, then.

Anyway! Sunwolf, what you said here:

Sunwolf007 wrote: All the threads start will be set in a foggy forest and then from there it would go completely in the direction the original poster directs.

... is what I said here:

Tartra wrote: At the start of that thread or stickied in that category is the Keeper of the Law (that name is sticking, but it's a placeholder unless you want to make it official) doing the bit about this being the swirly mists, here are landmarks they would pass, these are some places beyond the mist plus links to them, and that would be everyone's reference point. It's the IC list of rules.

Everyone else either makes their post or their category thread going through all that. The intention's not really to spawn its own RP out of it, but hey, I say leave the option.


... so yes, we are both stunning geniuses, and I'm still on board with this. Smile

And it's not to say no to an academy RP, but just that there's already room for it in the Casual RP section. If you get enough people interested in the same school environment (like, the same specific school, as in everyone goes to Caligo High), then yeah, it's a PW. But that would have to prove itself; this idea is about making the Swirly Mists a defacto, FoG-wide setting right off the bat.
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Re: Persistent Worlds Intro Discussion

Post by Sunwolf007 on Mon May 16, 2016 11:35 am

Yeah, which will help us with what we're trying to do in terms of making FoG unique. If you guys say the academy setting is overused for this I guess my default suggestion proves your point. If we take it a different way that makes us stand out. If we make this idea work right it could really help draw people here.

Also, I totally took your idea and reworded it, lol. No wonder it sounded like something I had heard recently. I'm seriously having a case of the Mondays. So, yeah I totally agree with you on this idea.

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Re: Persistent Worlds Intro Discussion

Post by Tartra on Mon May 16, 2016 11:48 am

Weeellll... That's the thing. From my POV, I don't think any intro thread - even as involved as this - would do a lot in drawing new members in. I think it'd be great for keeping them, having them feel involved, giving them a site identity to connect with, on top of an early sense of accomplishment for pulling it off, but again, that's retention, separate from recruitment.

The reason I joined FoG was because of its writing standards. I had just come off from RolePlayGateway, which was a milder shade of hell for finding someone who could write worth a damn towards non-fandom and one-on-one RPs, so I clicked on the little link to here because it said 'We encourage a standard of writing (literate or trying to be, certainly giving more than a one-line response to work with)'. I get what Ten was saying about that sounding a little up its ass, and it's a fine line between pompous and just giving a friendly expectation, but that was what brought me in. I missed the boat on the Caligo thing and didn't care, and I loosely introduced myself and didn't mind, and I saw the site was active and that helped, but it all came down to this.

So the question I've been meaning to ask you, Sunwolf, putting aside the fun stuff we can do for members, what are you asking from them? Who are the people you want to join? What's your target demographic? Because that's what's going to bring members in: people seeking like-minded people.
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Re: Persistent Worlds Intro Discussion

Post by Sunwolf007 on Tue May 17, 2016 7:12 pm

That's a very good string of questions. My central idea is what I remember best about this place when it was active. I even made sure to use it as part of the home page and you helped me edit it. FoG is a writing and role-playing forum that caters to all writers seeking to improve their literate capabilities and connect with their peers. With that in mind my target demographic would be people who are looking for a bit more out of writing. It could be sharing their knowledge thought teaching (which in effect teaches the teacher), bettering their skills or connecting with writers who help push them to be better at writing. I would like to see the writing sections as well as the RP sections get a lot of use. They would enjoy either (writing or RPing) and could be found on sites that may not be well suited to both (writing.com comes to mind). I agree that the community aspect is very important for retention of members so trying to get writing orientated people here is a must.

I also see what you're saying with the way FoG used to be advertised. Yes it was a bit stuck up, but it had standards that helped push its members. I would still like to keep some of that but bring in people of all writing skills and push them to be better. I remember starting out on RPG forums online (now defunct) and it helped me grow as a writer because people there were willing to teach me the basics. I ended up moving on to FoG to get higher standards to push myself further. I would love to see people start here and grow here. Maybe its a bit too ambitious, but that is my goal.

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Re: Persistent Worlds Intro Discussion

Post by Tartra on Tue May 17, 2016 7:23 pm

So if I try to paraphrase what you said to make sure I understand, it's a place for people looking to reach a higher level rather than someplace I'd expect them to be at that level already?

And nah, I didn't think it was stuck up. I think it was very easy to see it as stuck up, in the sense that what the site was looking for meant not everyone fit in automatically, but it was fine. Like I said, it's why i joined.
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