FOG Book Club

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Re: FOG Book Club

Post by The Ghost Writer on Sat May 28, 2011 12:32 pm

Well this would have been so much easier if I could download B&N books in Kuwait, but alas they won't let me purchase their ebooks outside the states. I had to settle with an Amazon ebook on my Xoom and it won't let me do practically anything that my nook app can. Grrr...

Well here I go:

In response to both how the world ended and what happened to the states; I can only offer the most logical conclusion of a nuclear holocaust. The constant ash falling and a darkened sky is clear evidence of such a catastrophic outcome - you also have to remember when that when he first noticed the truck gang approaching from behind, he explicit described one of the men to be wearing a raggedy chemical suit and mask. In my experience with what we call CBRNE in the military (Chemical, Biological, Radiological, Nuclear, and Explosive), the only possible explanation for needing both a HAZMAT suit, mask, and looking out at an ashen world is nuclear weapons. Radiation from fall out locations would explain the dead crops and other vegetation that they see throughout the novel. In regards to the disappearance of the states; I won't bother stating the obvious too much, but it looks like America kinda got whacked big time.

Moving on... When looking at the traditional structure of a novel and comparing it to McCarthy's, there are obvious differences - many of which you two have already pointed out (the punctuation, lack of quotations, and even the lack of chapters as forewarned before the reading). But what I found most intriguing after putting it down to take notes, I could actually remember a lot of details about the book; more than what I usually remember when reading more "traditional" novels. I'm not sure if it was the author's voice that was stuck in my head, or if it was simply the fact that I was exciting to get to work on this discussion, but I found that the lack of physical separation between parts of the story (chapter) actually helped with the flow and kept me entranced. I eventually became used to how he presented dialogue and no longer cared for the lack of quotation marks.

If I had the ability to bookmark this I would, but since I don't (thanks, Amazon, you dimwitted losers) I settled for writing this down:

On this road there are no godspoke me. They are gone and I am left and they have taken with them the world. Query: How does the never to be differ from what never was?"
This is the only part of the story so far that I have not been able to formulate a logical answer for, and mostly because I wasn't expecting to read it and had to re-read it about a dozen times before I even understood the question. Yet, for now, I just have to admit defeat to that one. Anyone else care to give that one a try?

Ryona wrote:Was it mass suicide, or someones meal stock?

Well, if I remember correctly, the truck had been stuck in an awkward position on the bridge, as if it had either lost control, or someone established a positive block to prevent its complete passage. Since it never backed up, it must have been blocked by someone else from behind. There's also the presence of the hole on top of the trailer that the Father peered through. My guess: marauders tried to hijack whatever supplies and food they thought were in the trailer, but abandoned it after discovering it was only a bunch of refugees. They either killed them all themselves, or left them trapped in the trailer to suffer a slow and sad fate.

Can you imagine, having to fear something so simple as well as the other things?
Actually I can, but I suppose that's just my own training telling me so. My comrades and I are always facing a higher risk of capture. Take away a man's comfortable lifestyle and force him to live in the most unpleasant conditions and you find that every decision you make has either really good, or really bad consequences. Call it desperation, if you will; keep reading into the story and you'll notice two scenarios where the Father has to make a decision that the reader cringes about.

In a dying world, does the act of dying become more intense, or less?
That is a question that would have to be applied to the individual and answered only by yourself. To me, for instance, I'd say it becomes less intense, however that's because when I answer this question I'm applying it to the most reasonable scenario in which such a question would come into play: me on a convoy in u-pick-a-stan; holding up behind a burning Humvee and return fire to an enemy that had just hit my convoy with an IED. At that moment, I'm in a dying world. I'm surrounded by men that would gladly give their lives in order to take me with them.

The final thing I want to touch on before I pick up the book and continue reading again, is the boy's penguin nightmare - something else that Ryona brought up. According to the boy "The winder wasn't turning". Anyone ever play with a wind-up toy before? You don't really find them anymore since all of our toys runs of batteries or - my favorite - nerf power (xD), but everyone would understand that the toy won't do anything unless you wind it up to apply some steadily-decreasing tension on the springs and sprockets within the toy. I took this dream as the boy illustrating that he is afraid of the what if? in life. So far, all he has known not an apocalyptic world, but a world that, to him, is normal. His father tells him that they should head south, and a son's natural love and obedience for his father affirms to him that heading south is what is supposed to be. If his father's memories are "his ghosts" then they are so because that they are not "supposed to be".

Perhaps this is the actual answer for that philosophical conundrum I couldn't decipher before: How does the never to be differ from what never was?

To us, we want to say "so what?" to something like that; because we live in a world that embraces and encourages ingenuity and change. The boy never knew this world, and as of right now in the story, he refuses to accept anything that is not "supposed to be". To the boy, the "never to be" does not differ from "what never was", and that is why he is so afraid of the "what if".

That's all I have for now, other than to comment that this book reminds me a lot of "The Book of Eli".
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Re: FOG Book Club

Post by Lara on Sat May 28, 2011 10:11 pm

Yay, it was page 72 after all! (I had been reading this week's material at work and couldn't remember what page to stop on, but I guessed right!) Sorry for not getting on any earlier, but I had work all day today.

I agree completely about the author's lack of puncutation and complete sentences. The first page made me want to throw the book against a wall because I'm a huge stickler for grammar and punctuation and all, so the jagged sentence structure made me twitch. Either I've grown used to it, though, or I've just decided to secretly complete the sentences in my head because it's not bothering me as much anymore. (Actually, the lack of punctuation with the conversations between the man and the boy are growing on me. I feel more connected to it...I can hear the man's voice in my head as he's responding to the boy.)

I wasn't confused about the concept of ashes, because it would make sense that the earth is nowhere near recovered from the apocolypse, but I do agree that it needs to be explained more. I'm assuming that this will all be discussed more as we get further in the book; after all, the flashbacks are already becoming frequent, and we've received a few hints about what happened through them. The one part that confused me, though, was the one point in the book where they had to stop their travel to "wait for the ground to cool" or something. They mentioned shoes being coated by tar, and the ground being too hot to walk across due to...something. Was that explained in the book yet? I couldn't decide if it was just hot out or if they ran across a lava path.

I do believe that some sort of fire was involved, though. I say this because of the mention of fires in the mountain, as well as the flashback with him filling the tub with water. Did they survive because of that? If so, it usually has something to do with heat or flames, so that would make sense.

It's also clear that whatever it is that happened, the world is still facing after-shocks, as pointed out by the earthquake...though it's strange that it would have only happened once since the apocolypse (at least, I assume this is the first time, as the boy didn't understand what an earthquake was, and I feel he would have asked if it had happened before).

The scene with his wife confused me a little, but only because I couldn't understand the wife's reasoning behind anything. She decided to take death "as a new lover"? And she's a whore because of it? That makes no sense to me.

It always amazes me to be able to find a book that doesn't involve any character description. We've received information about everyone and everything except the man and the boy. I find that to be very interesting.

I also feel a sense of relief every time they go searching for materials and come across things that can help them. One scene that confused me a little was when the man and the boy arrived at the home where the man used to live. The boy was afraid, and kept saying that they should leave. Was it because he was afraid of the past? Was he afraid that his father would want to stay in the past? I like Ryona's reasoning behind it all; it encompasses a little of everything.

OH, also, I didn't understand the paragraph on the bottom of page 15. "An old cronicle. to seek out the upright...(chunk I don't feel like typing)...of which you say it knows nothing and yet you know it must."

I think the author is describing the way the man is figuring things out, giving us an insight to what he's seeing and judging. "An old chronicle" - memories of the way things used to be. "To seek out the upright" - use trees and such to guide your way. Or perhaps, what he's looking for.. "No fall but preceeded by a declination" - he's on a hill, and will need to head downward. He counts his steps, waving his arms around to find guiding points. "Upright to what? Something nameless in the night..." - He can't remember what he would have looked for in the daylight or the past. That last line - pointing out again that he should know what to look for but has forgotten, yet knows somewhere in the back of his mind that he must still search.

On this road there are no godspoke me. They are gone and I am left and they have taken with them the world. Query: How does the never to be differ from what never was?"

I would try this harder if I could figure out what page it was on, but maybe it has something to do with what the Rapture was expecting? That the chosen ones, the "godspoke", the ones spoken for by god to be saved, are "gone", saved from the hell that the man and the boy are left in. "And they have taken with them the world" - everything that he knew and loved is now gone, replaced by ash and starvation and hell. The only bit I don't get is that last line, though I can imagine it might have something to do with warnings that had been given in the past and the reality that is there now.
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Re: FOG Book Club

Post by Mojave Wanderer on Sun May 29, 2011 12:48 pm

What happened to the world. I mean, I have seen all the parts talking about the fires and such, and I realize people are starving, but I really want to know what caused all this.

I also want to put in my favorite few lines from the first segment.
"The boy didnt answer. Then he said: The winder wasnt turning."
I really liked this part because it reminded me of those little things that you are so afraid of as a child but you dont know why. It makes the child inside of the character really show at this part, and it made me wonder: How have the two survived?
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Re: FOG Book Club

Post by Gadreille on Sun May 29, 2011 12:58 pm

The Ghost Writer wrote: In regards to the disappearance of the states; I won't bother stating the obvious too much, but it looks like America kinda got whacked big time.

Well, it's obvious that America is gone...but the child is asking why the States aren't there anymore. To him they are lines on a map; why would these lines suddenly not exist? To a child who has no understanding of government, politics, or even peace, there is no easy explanation.

The Ghost Writer wrote:. I'm not sure if it was the author's voice that was stuck in my head, or if it was simply the fact that I was exciting to get to work on this discussion, but I found that the lack of physical separation between parts of the story (chapter) actually helped with the flow and kept me entranced. I eventually became used to how he presented dialogue and no longer cared for the lack of quotation marks.

Same here.

The Ghost Writer wrote:
On this road there are no godspoke me. They are gone and I am left and they have taken with them the world. Query: How does the never to be differ from what never was?"
This is the only part of the story so far that I have not been able to formulate a logical answer for, and mostly because I wasn't expecting to read it and had to re-read it about a dozen times before I even understood the question. Yet, for now, I just have to admit defeat to that one. Anyone else care to give that one a try?

I'm not sure. I had a hard time with this one.

The Ghost Writer wrote:The final thing I want to touch on before I pick up the book and continue reading again, is the boy's penguin nightmare - something else that Ryona brought up. According to the boy "The winder wasn't turning". Anyone ever play with a wind-up toy before? You don't really find them anymore since all of our toys runs of batteries or - my favorite - nerf power (xD), but everyone would understand that the toy won't do anything unless you wind it up to apply some steadily-decreasing tension on the springs and sprockets within the toy. I took this dream as the boy illustrating that he is afraid of the what if? in life. So far, all he has known not an apocalyptic world, but a world that, to him, is normal. His father tells him that they should head south, and a son's natural love and obedience for his father affirms to him that heading south is what is supposed to be. If his father's memories are "his ghosts" then they are so because that they are not "supposed to be".

That is exactly what I was meaning.

I must believe you when you say your situation is poor and you can understand the man's simple and elaborate fears; however, being a parent I am always going to assume (even though I understand that I am probably wrong) that there is no greater terror than a threat toward your child. I suppose this belief is why I am so angry at the mother, for she lost that feeling, or never had it. She wanted him dead.




Lara wrote: (Actually, the lack of punctuation with the conversations between the man and the boy are growing on me. I feel more connected to it...I can hear the man's voice in my head as he's responding to the boy.)

It seems we all feel this way. He must have known what he was doing, leaving out the punctuation!

Lara wrote:was the one point in the book where they had to stop their travel to "wait for the ground to cool" or something. They mentioned shoes being coated by tar, and the ground being too hot to walk across due to...something. Was that explained in the book yet? I couldn't decide if it was just hot out or if they ran across a lava path.

The fire had gone over the road and melted the asphalt into a tar, so they had to wait for it to harden again.

Lara wrote:The scene with his wife confused me a little, but only because I couldn't understand the wife's reasoning behind anything. She decided to take death "as a new lover"? And she's a whore because of it? That makes no sense to me.

She was trying to explain that she had no love for life anymore, that all of her love, passion, and desire was in death. Like two lovers who will not be seperated, she was not to be seperated from death any longer.

Lara wrote:I also feel a sense of relief every time they go searching for materials and come across things that can help them. One scene that confused me a little was when the man and the boy arrived at the home where the man used to live. The boy was afraid, and kept saying that they should leave. Was it because he was afraid of the past? Was he afraid that his father would want to stay in the past? I like Ryona's reasoning behind it all; it encompasses a little of everything.

I know what you mean. When they lost everything in the cart, I felt so saddened, so worried for them. It is like The Ghost Writer said, the boy is afraid of anything that no longer "should be", his fathers memories are frightening ghosts of the past.

Lara wrote:I think the author is describing the way the man is figuring things out, giving us an insight to what he's seeing and judging. "An old chronicle" - memories of the way things used to be. "To seek out the upright" - use trees and such to guide your way. Or perhaps, what he's looking for.. "No fall but preceeded by a declination" - he's on a hill, and will need to head downward. He counts his steps, waving his arms around to find guiding points. "Upright to what? Something nameless in the night..." - He can't remember what he would have looked for in the daylight or the past. That last line - pointing out again that he should know what to look for but has forgotten, yet knows somewhere in the back of his mind that he must still search.

Thank you, that helps Smile




Mojave Wanderer wrote:]What happened to the world. I mean, I have seen all the parts talking about the fires and such, and I realize people are starving, but I really want to know what caused all this.

I also want to put in my favorite few lines from the first segment.
"The boy didnt answer. Then he said: The winder wasnt turning."
I really liked this part because it reminded me of those little things that you are so afraid of as a child but you dont know why. It makes the child inside of the character really show at this part, and it made me wonder: How have the two survived?

I wonder too. They haven't explained, other than the world is dying, filled with ash, and earthquakes.

I loved that penguin line too. We've all had dreams that are absolutely terrifying, but sound so silly when we wake up. I like Ghost Writer's interpretation, how it is tied in to the boy fearing things that "aren't".
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Re: FOG Book Club

Post by The Ghost Writer on Sun May 29, 2011 7:49 pm

I just want to apologize for the mess of typos I had in my last post. I came back into this thread to read up on the replies and was embarrassed when reviewing what I had written before. Man, I was out of it that night. Razz

At least my points seemed to get across to those that replied to them. Very Happy
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Re: FOG Book Club

Post by Kalon Ordona II on Sun May 29, 2011 8:50 pm

On this road there are no godspoke men. They are gone and I am left and they have taken with them the world. Query: How does the never to be differ from what never was?"
I think that means nobody cares about religion anymore. All they care about is survival, and they've turned into animals. It probably relates to the idea of "carrying the fire" that comes in later. For the query, I think he's probably pondering the effects of the apocalypse, that there are so many things that will never be anymore. How does this differ from what never was? Because we know those things are missing from the world, and forever will be.


Run-on sentences. Ev-eh-ry-where. It doesn't bother me as much as I thought it should; I just roll my eyes and go with it. Good writing can be about breaking the rules deliberately, for specific reasons. Wielding language as opposed to using it. In that sense, he accomplishes his goal, which I must assume is getting us into the mindset. Everything's in his head, and that's the way one thinks. I just think it's funny that we see "he'd" next to "didnt."

Was it mass suicide, or someones meal stock?
I hadn't thought of that. I figured maybe they all just died of starvation or something. Meal stock is creepy. o.O Maybe they were all getting a ride somewhere, but then died in the crash?
They had meal stock in the movie, though, later on, so it might make sense. Maybe they trapped them all in there, like a cellar.

Also, there was that dream in the beginning of the monster over the lake. Did that have any meaning to everyone? It felt strangely random to me.
I think it's just to get us in the mood. "Like the eggs of spiders" was a great way to bring in the creepiness of the dark, ashen, cannibalistic world.

Can you imagine, having to fear something so simple as well as the other things?
It would definitely suck. Razz It's a great illustration of their constant peril on every side.

In a dying world, does the act of dying become more intense, or less?
I think for the boy and the mother it is less, but to the father it is more. The mother sees no hope; the boy wants to be with his mother--all he knows of this life is struggle and misery; the father is the one who is carrying the fire. Deep down he knows it's important to never give up, no matter what. That's what makes him the hero of our story. That's what makes us root for him all the way. Hope only dies when we let it.

Is it better to feel hurt, or just not feel?
Tough question there. If all you felt was hurt? I'm not sure. You can't feel hurt without knowing what not-hurt is, so in a way, it might be better to feel it anyway. But it takes something inside you that's strong enough to fight back. The father's love for his son could do it. He said if the boy died he'd want to die too. The boy gives him something to fight for. The boy is the man's hope. So I think the man might feel like feeling nothing, but he knows it's better to feel than to let everything go.

"What happened to the states?" How does one answer that?
Yeah, he doesn't know what states are. Boundaries are gone; they don't matter anymore. What happened to the states? They disappeared. Now it's just the country.

The blackness he woke to on those nights was sightless and impenetrable. A blackness to hurt your ears with listening. Often he had to get up. No sound but the wind in the bare and blackened trees. He rose and stood tottering in that cold autistic dark with his arms outheld for balance while the vestibular calculations in his skull cranked out their reckonings. An old chronicle. To seek out the upright. No fall but preceded by a declination. He took great marching steps into the nothingness, counting them against his return. Eyes closed, arms oaring. Upright to what? Something nameless in the night, lode or matrix. To which he and the stars were common satellite. Like the great pendulum in its rotunda scribing through the long day movements of the universe of which you may say it knows nothing and yet know it must.
He's talking about keeping his balance in the dark. You have no reference point. It's like standing on one leg while closing your eyes. What do you balance to? The stars are gone. The old chronicle is him tracking his movements in the dark so he can get back. Comparing the whole scenario to a pendulum of a clock. You know the clock has no idea what it's doing, and yet it has to somehow, right? It's keeping time, after all. It's measuring the universe.
It's an illustration of how fragile he is, I think. Out in the dark, wondering just how much he really knows about anything.


I'm enjoying the book so far. They got over the mountains and they're making their way south. We got to see his old house.

I guess America was nuked. That was the bright flash and the bunch of booms, out the window. I'm not sure why he started filling up the bathtub. Maybe he figured the water would go out, like the power, so he should stock up a water supply so they wouldn't run out?

I like how on page 72 he's shaping the fire just so. It's all there is to do in the dark, waiting out the night. Get the fire just so. It's your hope, your warmth, your Thing To Do. You naturally want it perfect, even if you don't consciously think about it.

The book is pulling me along quite well. The author doesn't lose me. You start reading and it just flows. In a way it's monotonous, but you still want to know what happens. You're discovering the world and more about the protagonists. Little things are becoming clearer all the time. He's slowly painting a picture.

I think he leaves out descriptions of the protagonists so that people can fill in whatever they want. It's more personal that way. It doesn't matter what they look like; what's important is that they survive and keep carrying on. Very Happy

Looking forward to the next bit. ^^



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Re: FOG Book Club

Post by Mojave Wanderer on Mon May 30, 2011 5:18 pm

Whats the new stopping point for this week? Will it be the same amount? Neutral
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Re: FOG Book Club

Post by Gadreille on Mon May 30, 2011 5:22 pm

If you go to the first post, there is a link near the bottom that says "The Road". That link will take you to this post which describes the stopping points. This weeks stopping point is 143 (end of 1st paragraph).

For those with alternate page amounts, the last sentence is as follows, and should be approximately around the middle of your book:
Spoiler:
There was no gun and there wasnt going to be one.
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Re: FOG Book Club

Post by The Ghost Writer on Mon May 30, 2011 5:46 pm

Wait, hold up; is that before or after the part where he...

*Ghost Writer is hit by a bus before he reveals the spoiler* CRAP!
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Re: FOG Book Club

Post by Gadreille on Mon May 30, 2011 5:49 pm

*Ryona puts it in reverse for good measure*

Alrighty then, moving on.
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Re: FOG Book Club

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Re: FOG Book Club

Post by Kathryn Lacey on Tue May 31, 2011 5:18 pm

Crap! Sorry! Things got really busy the last few days. I didn’t have a chance to discuss over the weekend! Thanks so much for posting my blurb, Ryona.

Response to Ryona
Bleh… I agree that’s it’s frequently difficult to discern who is saying what. I sometimes have to read through the dialogue ((or what I think is supposed to be dialogue)) a few times to sort through it all. I, too, noticed that none of the characters have names so far.

Well, I don’t think the world itself is completely dead. I mean, there are no mentions of animals, but they did mention morels growing which are a type of mushroom. The soil must still be alive with minerals and nutrients for those to be able to grow.

I was super curious about the bodies, too. They could have died of starvation, been eaten, or decided they couldn’t handle being a part of the world any more. It’s really sad.

Hm… Yeah… The dream thing made me thing that the author was trying to maybe foreshadow something that will come. It seemed too out of place otherwise. I felt bad for the kid having that horrible dream. It sounds scary. I’ve had nightmares in the past, but nothing like toys coming to life of their own accord. I have had dreams that were horrifying while I dreamed them only to have them seem completely harmless by the light of day.

Oh. I figured she committed suicide, but I didn’t know what the obsidian thing was. It is sad that she just gave up on her family, but, as one who has never wanted to be a mother, I don’t know that I blame her. Post partum depression makes a lot of sense for the cause, though.


Those quotes are really good ones. I can completely understand how he would feel such conflicting emotions. If they’re each other’s entire world, their sole reasons for living, if one died, it would all be over, but no one really knows what awaits us at the end of life, so it could be frightening.

I think it would be awful to fear something so simple as getting wet. I’ve grown so used to just going inside where it’s warm if I get wet, but they don’t have that luxury. However, the author got them wet at other points in the book and never mentioned anything about how dangerous it was despite the growing cold as winter draws nearer.

Actually, if your ears are ringing when you’re listening for something, it’s because some of the tiny hairs that resonate with sound are damaged. I have that ringing all of the time, I just know how to block it out when there are other sounds. However, at night, if I’m paranoid about things, I hear it so acutely that the thing for which I’m listening is completely inaudible next to the ringing. It would be horrifying to have to worry about lightning, fire, and blood cults if I couldn’t hear any of it over the sound of the ringing in my ears.

I don’t know if I could ever take the life of something larger than an insect even if they were suffering, but I’ve never been faced with that situation. It just seems kind of awful.

Here’s a question: For those of you who follow a religion where it’s a sin to kill or to commit suicide, would a world like this negate such a thing if the murder was a mercy killing or if one simply had no strength emotionally and/or physically to continue?

I couldn’t really understand why the boy seemed so worried about visiting the ghosts of his father’s past. I thought of it more as a survival instinct. What if there were people camped in that house? That boy has obviously been taught from the beginning to fear other people, especially those in a group, so I figured it was just something along those lines.

I thought it was sweet of the boy to want to split everything, too. I understand that the father wants the son to enjoy as much of the good things as possible, but I think the boy feels guilty if he gets them all to himself. If the father would just split things, the boy would be able to fully enjoy them. It’s more enjoyable when two people can share an experience, at least in my opinion.

I honestly didn’t understand that paragraph, either. I figured the grammar was just too screwed up for me to really get a handle on it.


Response to Ghost
That is a very astute assumption. I wouldn’t have thought of that, but it makes perfect sense! I figured that the suit was something they simply found because looting seems like one of the few ways to survive in this place, and I thought the masks were so they wouldn’t breathe in ash, but your description makes way more sense, and I think you’re probably right.

I think what the quote about “godspoke” men means is that civilized people are gone. There is no room for such people in a world like this. It’s every man for himself in this place ((as witnessed with the man on the road who was struck by lightning)). The world that the man knew is gone.

Those are some very interesting and sensible theories concerning the boy’s dream and his fear of his father’s memories.

Response to Lara
hahah I’ve been completing the sentences in my head, too. It makes reading the crappy grammar bearable.

Hm… I think the wife calling death her new lover and calling herself a whore for taking a new lover was her way of coping with abandoning her family. She couldn’t live in a world like that, so she felt that her husband’s love was no longer enough for her. She wanted to accept death’s embrace instead. ((Ryona’s explanation was way better. XD ))

Your explanation for that weird paragraph that was difficult to decipher seems to be a valid theory as does your explanation for the “godspoke men” line.

Response to Mojave
I have a similar urge to truly understand wtf happened to the world. I really want a definite answer, and I’m a little worried there won’t be one.

Response to Kalon
Ugh… I hate them. They’re either run-on sentences or they aren’t complete sentences. The author seems to really like not adding verbs into his sentences when he’s describing visual things. It’s extremely obnoxious. I’m still having some trouble getting used to it, but I try to just insert the proper words where they need to be, so I’m slowly becoming almost okay with it.

Your explanation of that paragraph makes perfect sense. That paragraph has so much more meaning to me with your explanation and with Lara’s.

I noticed the monotonous tone of this book, but at the same time, it’s like the tortoise that won the race by being slow but steady.

Response to Silvone
The world simply dying is a possibility. Couldn’t a nuclear attack cause after effects that last years, though? However, my grandma saw this show once where all of the humans just disappeared, and the results were catastrophic. Like… the Earth was essentially poisoned because the environmentally unfriendly things were just left to break down. If the world simply died, this could explain the need for the chemical suits and gas masks.

Then again, if the world was truly just dead, how would any kind of life continue to grow? We know mushrooms don’t need much life to grow, but they still need nutrients of some kind to do it, and they found plenty of mushrooms to eat.

You make some really interesting points, and they definitely have my mind whirling a little more. I’m really excited to learn more about this world and to discuss it.

Ryona Noel wrote: I must believe you when you say your situation is poor and you can understand the man's simple and elaborate fears; however, being a parent I am always going to assume (even though I understand that I am probably wrong) that there is no greater terror than a threat toward your child. I suppose this belief is why I am so angry at the mother, for she lost that feeling, or never had it. She wanted him dead.
What if her reason behind wanting her child dead was so he wouldn’t have to suffer through the kind of life he’s currently living? The child himself doesn’t even want to be alive, but the only way out is through death.

Ryona Noel wrote: When they lost everything in the cart, I felt so saddened, so worried for them.
Did I miss something? I thought they only lost the boy’s backpack? The father went back for the cart after the encounter with those men, and he found it all right, didn’t he?

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Re: FOG Book Club

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Re: FOG Book Club

Post by Gadreille on Tue May 31, 2011 6:07 pm

For those of you who follow a religion where it’s a sin to kill or to commit suicide, would a world like this negate such a thing if the murder was a mercy killing or if one simply had no strength emotionally and/or physically to continue?
I don't follow such religion, though obviously as I do not murder and have never commited suicide, I do follow those rules. If the beliefs become negated due to the situation, then the beliefs really aren't there anymore, are they? We have this problem today, with assisted suicide in people who are suffering terminal diseases. It is still against the law almost everywhere in the States (if not everywhere). If we fight it now, I imagine the believer would fight it then, until the point where they just don't believe it anymore.

I know that the Mother wants to end her suffering, and her son's. But I would never end my suffering before my child is safe or dead, and I don't think I could ever kill him (though, like I said, I have never been faced between his death and a worse death by another, so I can't really know).

Kathryn, they found the cart but it was empty but for a few toys and things meaningless for survival.

Silvone, I agree with what you say, and meant to say it too, but I didn't describe it well. It is like a pact between them not to stress on what isn't anymore.
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Re: FOG Book Club

Post by Kalon Ordona II on Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:19 am

Good thought on the opening monster dream, Silvone. I hadn't thought of it that way, but it makes sense.


For those of you who follow a religion where it’s a sin to kill or to commit suicide, would a world like this negate such a thing if the murder was a mercy killing or if one simply had no strength emotionally and/or physically to continue?
Well, depending on the religion, they might not be there for such an apocalypse. If they do find themselves in a setting like this, either they'd keep their beliefs or they'd lose them. If they lose them, they'd probably still have some residual reservations against killing or suicide, even if they do still do it in the end. If they keep their beliefs or faith, it's possible that they'd have the inner peace to withstand the environment, at least to a greater extent. Would a world like this negate beliefs? Not for people who really believe. They'd probably have hope even if they were by themselves.
Would a world like this make suicides and mercy killings allowable within such belief systems? That's a good question. I'm not sure. It's not martyrdom, just survival, so it might not apply to withstanding whatever suffering is out there.

Maybe I'll work it out from the mother's perspective in the story. She'd rather kill herself and her son than see them all raped and eaten. Is that allowable? I don't think so, and here's why. You don't know for sure that you'll be raped and eaten, and you don't know what'll happen afterwards. Even if it looks like rape and cannibalism are imminent, you won't know for sure that you won't survive it or be saved from it. You also don't know for sure that you won't be able to fight them off yourself. Or even stumble upon some safe haven. Therefore, you don't have the right to deprive yourself or someone you love of hope or of life. People who believe this way would be "carry the fire" type of people, but for reasons different from those of the father in the book.

If the "godspoke men" refers specifically to religion, though, that probably means they're either in hiding, or have disappeared, or haven't survived. It probably doesn't mean that, though, because later on *spoily spoil spoiler*
Spoiler:
The mother of the two children at the end tries to talk to the boy about God.

In the movie, the people at the end seem like what I imagine my family would end up like if we found ourselves in such a world. Assuming we survived. Razz

Here's a tough question for me, though.
The dying man on the bridge. Would I have given him anything, like the boy wanted to?
It would be hard, but I don't think I would. He was obviously beyond help, so giving him anything would be potentially killing people who do have a chance.
What if the man had been in less serious condition? Now, that's a harder question. It might still be hard--for the opposite reason--but I think I'd try to help somehow. If he could travel, I'd talk to him and have him join the group. Since he'd be weak, he probably wouldn't be a problem if he tried to eat us, and maybe we could convert him. ^^
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Re: FOG Book Club

Post by Gadreille on Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:23 pm

Kalon Ordona II wrote:Is that allowable? I don't think so, and here's why. You don't know for sure that you'll be raped and eaten, and you don't know what'll happen afterwards. Even if it looks like rape and cannibalism are imminent, you won't know for sure that you won't survive it or be saved from it. You also don't know for sure that you won't be able to fight them off yourself. Or even stumble upon some safe haven. Therefore, you don't have the right to deprive yourself or someone you love of hope or of life. People who believe this way would be "carry the fire" type of people, but for reasons different from those of the father in the book.

I think I agree here. Like, perhaps if the blood cult had broken through the doorway and had my wife and son in their hands, maybe then I would pull the trigger. Maybe. But not a moment before. And who knows? Maybe I wouldn't have. Maybe I couldn't have.

Kalon Ordona II wrote:Here's a tough question for me, though.
The dying man on the bridge. Would I have given him anything, like the boy wanted to?
It would be hard, but I don't think I would. He was obviously beyond help, so giving him anything would be potentially killing people who do have a chance.
What if the man had been in less serious condition? Now, that's a harder question. It might still be hard--for the opposite reason--but I think I'd try to help somehow. If he could travel, I'd talk to him and have him join the group. Since he'd be weak, he probably wouldn't be a problem if he tried to eat us, and maybe we could convert him. ^^

My father is this way. "Protect your own", he says, and sometimes I would feel at a loss because I want to help everyone. But you cannot help everyone, and especially when you can barely help yourself. I think that I would leave nothing, neither for the dying man or one in good health, not while I was caring for my son. Then again, I am not a very sociable person, so food supply is not the only thing that would worry me should I add to the party. While this is cold hearted and I don't want to be this type of person, I can't afford to be any other way, not right now in my life and not if I was the Man in The Road.
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Re: FOG Book Club

Post by Lara on Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:56 pm

Concerning the man in the road, I probably would have wanted to help him somewhere in the back of my mind, but I wouldn't actually do so. In this kind of world, it's to each his own; and besides, from the way the man was walking it didn't seem like he even had the will to live. I wouldn't want to give him anything just for him to die anyway due to not caring anymore.
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Re: FOG Book Club

Post by Gadreille on Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:26 pm

Wow, I was kind of bummed after being stuck in class all day to find absolutely nothing new here Sad Unfortunately, I don't have access to my notes, so I probably won't be getting my initial post up until tomorrow. That said, I don't have to go first. Please, go right ahead Wink
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Re: FOG Book Club

Post by Kalon Ordona II on Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:58 pm

Ah, okay. I was waiting for you because you went first. And then I got caught up in the FOG theme. Gimme a couple minutes and I'll post my thoughts. Very Happy
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Re: FOG Book Club

Post by Lara on Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:07 pm

I wasn't waiting, I just hadn't finished reading yet. I work 9 to 6 four days a week and pretty much come home tired, so I don't really get to read more than a few pages until the weekend. But I've finished and I can post now, and it's actually good that no one else has posted for this segment yet, 'cause I'm too tired to do more than most my own thoughts right now...

It's going to be jumpy because I wrote my thoughts down as I read the section this time.

---

"This is my child, he said. I wash a dead man's brains out of his hair. That is my job."

This line really hit me hard. I can't imagine a world where something like that would become so ritualistic that I would consider it "my job". I understand the idea of protecting someone but to even begin to think about it on that kind of level is a scary thought.

"He sat beside him and stroked his pale and tangled hair. Golden chalice, good to house a god. Please don't tell me how the story ends."

Is this a turning point in the book for the reader? I wonder what the significance of this is. Up until this point, we knew nothing about "the man" and "the boy", and yet in this sentence, we learn that the boy has pale, blonde hair (at least, that's what I'm taking away from this). Is it to make the characters more real to us? To prove that they have an identity? The last part of the line confuses me, though.

"My job is to take care of you. I was appointed to do that by God."

I find it interesting the way the man keeps referring to taking care of the boy as "his job". Is that really how he thinks of it? That he must do it because he was "assigned the task" by someone else? Obviously he cares for the boy, but it's definitely been mentioned a couple of times now, even in the flashbacks of his wife when she tells him that he wouldn't be alive if not for the boy, that he must take care of him.

Another part that strikes me is the section describing the man giving the boy a flute, and the boy playing. Is the "formless music" due to the boy's lack of training? Or is it yet another play on the fact that everything they used to know is gone, that there are no more "hit tunes" that everyone knows and would play on their instruments?

You know, the first thought that crossed my mind when they mentioned hearing a dog was 'I sure as heck wouldn't want to cross paths with any dogs in this book.' I mean, no one in their right mind would keep a dog alive. Which makes me think that the dog would find its own ways to survive. Which would probably include turning cannibalistic. Which would concern me. A lot. And if it didn't, I really wonder how it survived.

Three cartridges in the pistol? I thought they were down to one remaining shot.

I've reached the scene with the mansion-like house. The man really should learn to listen to the boy sometimes...This scene kind of freaks me out a bit, because I guess that's what it means to "stockpile" in this day and age. The boy's later response to this, I find interesting because it shows that even though the boy relies on the man for a good deal of information, he is still able to reason things out, and the man encourages him to figure it out himself rather than just supplying all of the answers.

"Each memory called must do some violene to its origins...What you alter in the remembering has yet a reality, known or not."

Yet another line that I find interesting. The man has reached the point where he doesn't know what he remembers versus what he is actually imagining, and it's as though it's blurring the point of reality even further.

A smile actually spread across my face when they found the bunker of stored goods.
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Re: FOG Book Club

Post by Kalon Ordona II on Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:50 pm

Good thoughts, Lara.
I'd forgotten about the hair-washing and the assigned-from-God bit.

Here's what I've been writing while you were posting. Razz



First of all, This Is Where It Gets Good.

The second quarter really steepens the emotional rollercoaster. First they stumble across more Blood Cult type people. Then they starve, sustain, starve, and finally find supplies. Scare, Low point, High point. Finding the humans kept for food contrasts with finding a proper store of food. Both are under a trap door. See? Good things can be down those, too.

The father says a line that sums up the whole book, just before they find all the supplies.
This door looks like the other door, he said. But it's not. I know you're scared. That's okay. I think there may be things in there and we have to take a look. There's no place else to go. This is it. I want you to help me. If you don't want to hold the lamp you'll have to take the pistol.
I'll hold the lamp.
Okay. This is what the good guys do. They keep trying. They don't give up.
Whole book. Right there. They're carrying the fire for humanity. Most of the rest have already become animals. As long as people like the father and the boy survive, there will still be humanity. That's what the Good Guys do. No compromise. No surrender. It's hope that, even facing the end of the world, there will be Good Guys who will Never Give Up.


I think the father might have had experience in the wilderness and in the army. He recognizes army style and he's organized and motivated, and he knows about tracks and how to make use of anything he finds.

The author lost me a tiny bit a couple of times when he found the house before finding supplies. Mostly because I didn't know some of the specific nouns and descriptions he was using. Had to read a paragraph twice. That's probably more my failing than his, though. Razz


It looks like the father's low point was the night before they found the supply house, when they were starving. When he sees the "absolute truth of the world" for a moment and feels all small and helpless in a vast, meaningless universe. Yet he's carrying the fire, so we know he doesn't really think it's meaningless. It's his moment of despair. Yet he carries on. That makes him a hero. Nod


There were a couple other things I was going to bring up. I forgot to take note of a couple lines I was going to ask you all about. I'll check real quick if I can find them.

*checks*

I guess this'll go in reverse order.
This one is just after the boy fears the second trap door after having experienced the human meal-stock.
But when he bent to see into the boy's face under the hood of the blanket he very much feared that something was gone that could not be put right again.
This seems to be about the meal-stock shock. Do you think he means a kind of loss of innocence? Seeing something like that has to have a pretty profound effect. He seems to have accepted that they couldn't help those people, because they would have been eaten too.

Oh right! I remember now the main thing I was wondering about.
*finds it*
On page 87. The first-person bit.
The dog that he remembers followed us for two days. I tried to coax it to come but it would not. I made a noose of wire to catch it. There were three cartridges in the pistol. None to spare. She walked away down the road. The boy looked after her and then he looked at me and then he looked at the dog and he began to cry and to beg for the dog's life and I promised I would not hurt the dog. A trellis of a dog with the hide stretched over it. The next day it was gone. That is the dog he remembers. He doesn't remember any little boys.
What the what? I assume it's them before the mother killed herself, back when there were three shots in the gun. And I guess it's the father talking--dreaming, perhaps? But what's going on with the dog? And what's the boy who the boy doesn't remember? And what's going on with this previous dog? How do you have a trellis of a dog? Was there a dog that was a pet the boy had? Did they kill it? Did they eat it? What happened to the father promising not to hurt it? Why is the mother leaving somewhere? Is she taking the dog with her? What, did she skin it and stretch it over a trellis? How is that not hurting it? How did it disappear the next day? Did they kill it and eat it and throw it away, despite promising the boy it would be alright? What am I missing?

Oh hey, I liked the part where he decided not to go with the suicide or the self-sacrifice. He found a way to stay with the boy and figure it out together.
While he was struggling with it afterward, he says this on page 114:
They lay listening. Can you do it? When the time comes? When the time comes there will be no time. Now is the time. Curse God and die. What if it doesn't fire? It has to fire. What if it doesn't fire?
and so on. "Curse God and die." That's a direct quote from the Bible, the book of Job, when his wife is advising him to give up and basically commit suicide to end his suffering. That this specific line is in the father's thoughts tells me he has at least some biblical background. He doesn't seem to have specifically religious convictions, but it seems he was brought up within some moral environment. The little glimpses of his past suggest he was a suburbial family man, probably of an outdoorsish persuasion. Probably the type who would have taken his son fishing or hunting if the world hadn't ended. Sort of the American everyman. I guess that's the point, though. Razz


Ooh, another thing I was going to ask you guys' thoughts on, the father's nightmare about his son on a coolingboard. What does that mean? *googles it* Ohh, it's for dead bodies. Got it.

Which reminds me of the nice dream that followed it, where we see his suburbia-ness and how pretty he thought his wife was. ^_^ I thought that was a great demonstration of what nice dreams can do with nice memories.


So yeah, that's about it for now. I'll probably think of more later.
Still flows great and I always want to see what happens next! Very Happy
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Re: FOG Book Club

Post by Mojave Wanderer on Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:53 am

On page 137, the father tells the boy

This door looks like the other door, he said. But it's not. I know your scared. That's okay. I think there may be things in there and we have to take a look. There's no place else to go. This is it. I want you to help me.

This section made me wonder,

Why is the boy so scared of the door? Did his father possibly attempt to kill him after putting him in a grave? Did they break into one a while back? Was his mother put in one that he saw?

It feels more likely that the man and the boy accidentaly broke into a grave, but with the way the man is describing his emotions, I wouldnt be suprised if every now and then he attempted to kill himself and the boy.

On page 129, the boy and the man talk about how they are good guys that wont eat anyone

Because we're the good guys. Yes. And we're carryong the fire. And we're carrying the fire. Yes. Okay.

At first, I thought the fire might have been the gun that they have been carrying. I then realized how horribly wrong this is was and thought maybe they possesed an object that symbolized humanity, like an old toy or such. And then it hit me Doh! The fire is simply a symbol for their humanity that is no object, like Kalon said.

Other than that, I look forward to finishing the book soon! I would like to begin a roleplay based on the book as soon as I finish. Excited
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Re: FOG Book Club

Post by Gadreille on Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:19 pm

Lara wrote:"He sat beside him and stroked his pale and tangled hair. Golden chalice, good to house a god. Please don't tell me how the story ends."

Is this a turning point in the book for the reader? I wonder what the significance of this is. Up until this point, we knew nothing about "the man" and "the boy", and yet in this sentence, we learn that the boy has pale, blonde hair (at least, that's what I'm taking away from this). Is it to make the characters more real to us? To prove that they have an identity? The last part of the line confuses me, though.

He is symbolizing his child's hair like a great chalice, it is supposed to make us understand how much he treasures his son. The last line means he doesn't want to know how his son dies. He can't bear to know.

Lara wrote:"My job is to take care of you. I was appointed to do that by God."

I find it interesting the way the man keeps referring to taking care of the boy as "his job". Is that really how he thinks of it? That he must do it because he was "assigned the task" by someone else? Obviously he cares for the boy, but it's definitely been mentioned a couple of times now, even in the flashbacks of his wife when she tells him that he wouldn't be alive if not for the boy, that he must take care of him.

Another part that strikes me is the section describing the man giving the boy a flute, and the boy playing. Is the "formless music" due to the boy's lack of training? Or is it yet another play on the fact that everything they used to know is gone, that there are no more "hit tunes" that everyone knows and would play on their instruments?

He treats caring for his son as if God came down from the heavens and bestowed the job upon him like a biblical tale. Again, the author is trying to stress how much his son means to him. His son is his Family. His Treasure. His Religion. His Link to God.

I also loved the flute line. If they die, it is the last broken tune of an age to pass. If they live, it is the first pieces of symphonies to come!

Lara wrote:Three cartridges in the pistol? I thought they were down to one remaining shot.
This is a flashback, I'll respond more to it with Kalon's post.

Lara wrote:I've reached the scene with the mansion-like house. The man really should learn to listen to the boy sometimes...This scene kind of freaks me out a bit, because I guess that's what it means to "stockpile" in this day and age. The boy's later response to this, I find interesting because it shows that even though the boy relies on the man for a good deal of information, he is still able to reason things out, and the man encourages him to figure it out himself rather than just supplying all of the answers.

Good observation, I hadn't really thought of that. The boy figured that out on his own.




Kalon Ordona II wrote:The father says a line that sums up the whole book, just before they find all the supplies.
This door looks like the other door, he said. But it's not. I know you're scared. That's okay. I think there may be things in there and we have to take a look. There's no place else to go. This is it. I want you to help me. If you don't want to hold the lamp you'll have to take the pistol.
I'll hold the lamp.
Okay. This is what the good guys do. They keep trying. They don't give up.
Whole book. Right there. They're carrying the fire for humanity. Most of the rest have already become animals. As long as people like the father and the boy survive, there will still be humanity. That's what the Good Guys do. No compromise. No surrender. It's hope that, even facing the end of the world, there will be Good Guys who will Never Give Up.

Good summary, Kalon!

Kalon Ordona II wrote:This one is just after the boy fears the second trap door after having experienced the human meal-stock.
But when he bent to see into the boy's face under the hood of the blanket he very much feared that something was gone that could not be put right again.
This seems to be about the meal-stock shock. Do you think he means a kind of loss of innocence? Seeing something like that has to have a pretty profound effect. He seems to have accepted that they couldn't help those people, because they would have been eaten too.

I think he thinks the boy is scarred. Beyond innocence, the type of scarring kids get when going through traumatic events. He thinks his son might be broken to the point of no repair.

Kalon Ordona II wrote:
The dog that he remembers followed us for two days. I tried to coax it to come but it would not. I made a noose of wire to catch it. There were three cartridges in the pistol. None to spare. She walked away down the road. The boy looked after her and then he looked at me and then he looked at the dog and he began to cry and to beg for the dog's life and I promised I would not hurt the dog. A trellis of a dog with the hide stretched over it. The next day it was gone. That is the dog he remembers. He doesn't remember any little boys.
What the what? I assume it's them before the mother killed herself, back when there were three shots in the gun. And I guess it's the father talking--dreaming, perhaps? But what's going on with the dog? And what's the boy who the boy doesn't remember? And what's going on with this previous dog? How do you have a trellis of a dog? Was there a dog that was a pet the boy had? Did they kill it? Did they eat it? What happened to the father promising not to hurt it? Why is the mother leaving somewhere? Is she taking the dog with her? What, did she skin it and stretch it over a trellis? How is that not hurting it? How did it disappear the next day? Did they kill it and eat it and throw it away, despite promising the boy it would be alright? What am I missing?

It is the father remembering a time before the death of the mother, and they came accross the dog. And he is telling us that this is why this new dog was such a big deal, because he has seen one before, and it followed them for two days, and he got attached to it. The "trellis of a dog" means the dog was naught more than bones with skin over it. It was starving. The boy the boy doesn't remember means that the son has never seen a little boy, so why is he all of the sudden thinking he is seeing one? It is the equivelent of a ghost in the Man's eyes.




Mojave Wanderer wrote:On page 137, the father tells the boy

This door looks like the other door, he said. But it's not. I know your scared. That's okay. I think there may be things in there and we have to take a look. There's no place else to go. This is it. I want you to help me.

This section made me wonder,

Why is the boy so scared of the door? Did his father possibly attempt to kill him after putting him in a grave? Did they break into one a while back? Was his mother put in one that he saw?

It feels more likely that the man and the boy accidentaly broke into a grave, but with the way the man is describing his emotions, I wouldnt be suprised if every now and then he attempted to kill himself and the boy.

At first I thought it was a grave too, but I think he is comparing it too the door in the house that had the stockpile. I think the boy was afraid there would be mealstock in there too. Come to think of it, isn't it funny how we've all kind of accepted that those people, whether a few or dozens, were just food? I'm creeping myself out with how little I think about the fact that they were once, and essentially still are, people. Food for thought. (Pun SOOOO not intended).




One other thing, I think Kalon touched on it a bit but I forgot to quote it, I like the part on page 88-89 when the Man is stockpiling "information". He is thinking about how little he knows, and how that might be all that anyone in this world will ever know. It seems like so little, and yet so much. It makes me wonder, if my family were the last family on earth, or heck, even my city, how so so so so so so so little information we'd have to build the next generation. It's like the genetic drift of our knowledge.
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Re: FOG Book Club

Post by The Ghost Writer on Sun Jun 05, 2011 1:27 pm

If it's alright with the rest of you guys, I believe I'll hold the rest of my commentary and remarks until we finish the book. I have a lot on my plate right now, so I'll wait until the conclusion. Smile
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Re: FOG Book Club

Post by Gadreille on Sun Jun 05, 2011 1:48 pm

That is fine, Ghost Writer.
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Re: FOG Book Club

Post by Gadreille on Sun Jun 05, 2011 4:16 pm

Also, I thought this part was a major part of the character development:

He took the boy's hand and pushed the revolver into it. Take it, he whispered. Take it. The boy was terrified. He put his arm around him and held him. His body so thin. Don't be afraid, he said. If they find you you are going to have to do it. Do you understand? Shh, no crying. Do you hear me? You know how to do it. You put it in your mouth and point it up. Do it quick and hard. Do you understand? Stop crying. Do you understand?
I think so.
No. Do you understand?
Yes.
Say yes I do Papa.
Yes I do Papa.
He looked down at him. All he saw was terror. He took the gun from him. No you don't, he said.
I don't know what to do Papa. I don't know what to do.
Where will you be?
It's okay.
I don't know what to do.
Shh, I'm right here, I won't leave you.
You promise.
Yes, I promise. I was going to try and run, to try and lead them away. But I can't leave you.

Like the part Kalon quoted, this was the moment. And the last thing the father could do was lead them away and hope he would live a few days longer. But he couldn't. This was the limiting point of the father. He would not leave his son, he would stand there and die next to him, but wouldn't leave him. You could say it was his weakness, or his strength. it depends who is reading, I guess.
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Re: FOG Book Club

Post by Mojave Wanderer on Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:04 pm

I didnt even think about the fact that the last door they came across held those people. And I do think it is odd that some of us have accepted that they are food Ryona. I see the place more as a torture chamber myself, although I know it is not.
I cant get over the line on page 115 just outside the house,

In the night he heard hideous shrieks coming from the house and he tried to put his hands over the boy's ears and after a while the screaming stopped.

Because of this line, unlike you Ryona, I do not simply see it as food storage, although I do understand the point you are trying to make.
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Re: FOG Book Club

Post by Gadreille on Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:27 pm

I do remember that line now that you mention it. It's more like what the little boy had to go through: They are going to eat them, we cannot help them, and that is the end of the story. You have to ignore the feelings of horror and sadness because if you let that in it will destroy you.

You are right though; it is a torture chamber, in a sense.
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Re: FOG Book Club

Post by Kalon Ordona II on Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:42 am

Ah, thanks for enlightening me on the dog memory, Ryona! Very Happy
That makes me realize something I hadn't before, about that bit.
The father still thinks the boy didn't see another little boy back in that one town. He's wondering or trying to work out, or just noticing, the fact that the boy has no memory of another little boy, and yet he claims to have seen one. Maybe he'll start to think the boy was telling the truth, later on?
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Re: FOG Book Club

Post by Guest on Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:39 am

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Re: FOG Book Club

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