TOKoR Comic: Update - 6/9

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TOKoR Comic: Update - 6/9

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:18 pm

So, if you've been keeping up with TOKoR, either here, on FictionPress or the Artbook thread, you may or may not be aware of the epicness that is The Other Kind of Roommate. It's a story that I personally feel other people would enjoy reading. Lots of times, you feel that way about your own role-plays and whatnot, but I truly think this one legitimately fits into that category. Since it's an editor's nightmare taking on the project of putting TOKoR into a novel format, Tartra and I have agreed that it would be all around easier(and possibly, even cooler) to see it in a graphic novel/comic format instead. And it's a project I'm excited about attempting.

Now, I'm nowhere near as good as someone like David Lloyd(V for Vendetta) or Dave Gibbons(Watchmen) but if the folks who made Gloomcookie can get away with publishing that juvenile scribbling and a vapid story about coffee-shop goths, then I think I can at least try my hand at the task. And TOKoR more than deserves it. Not really sure where this will go yet, but until I get something firmer set up - like maybe an actual webcomic site or enough pages worth showing somebody - I figure I'll make this thread to showcase my progress and open myself to feedback.

This is not a TOKoR OOC - although I'm sure Tartra and I will be the most involved in this, outside comments are welcomed and encouraged! I will try and catalog all of the posted artwork in the first few posts of this thread to make navigation easier. Smile

Please, please, do not feel like you cannot say anything. I am NOT a professional comic book artist! I need a LOT of work in becoming better! Comments, whether they be positive or negative help me iron out the kinks and flaws in my work and help me make this an enjoyable thing for people to read in this format.

That being said, please keep in mind that I'm drawing and coloring all of these by hand and have very limited resources. Try to keep your suggestions/critiques realistic and helpful if you're going to offer negative feedback. If there is something off about a panel or section of panels, I'd appreciate advice on how to possibly fix it to go along with any criticism.

Now! Let's get started! Very Happy

_____________________________

How the thread is/will be set up: When there is an update, I will post the new picture(s) in image tags in the thread and mark the date in the thread title. When the next update occurs, I will remove the image tags on the previous picture(s) and mark the title with a large yellow star. I will also add a link to the image on a list in the first posts of this thread(new updates will be marked by a large red star for about a week).

I mark them with stars because even though I'll have all the images in a list in the first posts, it's just in case anyone wants to look through the thread and read any comments that go along with it. Since the whole point of this thread is to get feedback on whether or not I've translated the story correctly in a picture format, I will try to keep my artist's notes to a minimum.


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Re: TOKoR Comic: Update - 6/9

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:19 pm

Reserved for image list

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Re: TOKoR Comic: Update - 6/9

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:24 pm

Arrival page 1

Arrival page 2

For anyone watching who is NOT aware of the storyline, this probably wasn't the best place for me to start drawing. But I was having a bit of inspiration trouble with the opening scenes and decided to do this scene instead. Just so you know, this is at the end of page 2 of the role-play when Stephanie arrives on the scene after Jason failed to capture Gwen. The dialogue is almost word for word from the role-play, which I will continue to do through these pages.

NOTES: Not sure how much I'm going to color these yet, but I'll probably end up giving them full color at some point. Jason is NOT naked but is wearing a skin-tight body suit. Benoit showing up on the first page is kinda odd, I know(just sorta "popping" in there to smirk...the creepy Canuck...) but if I were to do the pages before this scene, it would be obvious he's been in the room with Jason.

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Re: TOKoR Comic: Update - 6/9

Post by Guest on Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:22 pm

Intro 001

Intro 002

Intro 003

Alright, HERE is the beginning. Seriously would like some feedback on this.

I'm not sure if it's too wordy or not and I don't know how to fix it if it is. 1. I think it'll be alright if Alex explains things a little as the introduction and 2. Alex's "thoughts" directly lead into Xander's internal dialogue, so I'm having trouble cutting anything out.

Also, I'm not sure about Xander's font - it seems a little close to my own handwriting. Also, what do people think of the boxes they show up in? Alex's narration will be in regular white boxes with straight, clean edges, so I thought Xander's would be articulated in a very jagged edged box. What do you guys think? Look good or is it kinda screwy?

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Re: TOKoR Comic: Update - 6/9

Post by Guest on Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:34 pm

Intro 004

Intro 005

Intro 006

And here's the rest of the introduction. Still pretty wordy and not really sure how Xander's internal word blocks are working out, but I think they look alright. I think after this, I'll be able to cut down on Alex's internal thoughts a lot more. I'll have to cut a bunch of XanderxAlex dialogue though.

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Re: TOKoR Comic: Update - 6/9

Post by Guest on Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:20 pm

Comic 001

Comic 002

Comic 003

Gwen enters the scene. Lots of hacking and cutting out stuff with this. Trying to rely on facial expressions and body language to get stuff across.

One thing: on the top right hand corner of the third page, does it make sense what is going on?

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Re: TOKoR Comic: Update - 6/9

Post by Guest on Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:51 pm

Comic 004

Comic 005

Comic 006

Not sure how these pages are - kinda went for a simplified style for a few panels here and there, just because it's easier and probably looks better than it would have if I tried to do tiny detailed drawings of everybody. Is it too jarring though? Specifically, the simplified panels on page 004, but also the kinda cartoony panels on pages 005 and 006? I mean, do they look alright? I'm trying to be consistent here and I want to know if the realistic drawings up to this point kinda make these panels look out of place?


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Re: TOKoR Comic: Update - 6/9

Post by Kalon Ordona II on Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:19 pm

Realistic combined with cartoony is a much-beloved style, often seen in manga. I know I'm a fan of it, so you're peachy in my book. ^_^

The beginning is wordy, yes, but like you said, it needs to be. And it works well for the situation he's in. It's a good introduction, finally getting a tiny bit of relative peace after days of annoyance and worse. The jagged lines and odd font work well for the Xander voice. Nod

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Re: TOKoR Comic: Update - 6/9

Post by Guest on Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:53 pm

Thank you for your input, Kalon! And yeah, I do notice that with a lot of mangas usually, now that you mention it.

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Re: TOKoR Comic: Update - 6/9

Post by Guest on Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:57 pm

Comic 007

Comic 008

Comic 009

Alright, so currently the only notes for these pages I have are that I'm planning on totally redoing certain panels of these.

For page 007 I'm going to redo the bottom three panels. For page 009 I'm going to redo the top panel - I originally wanted to give a broad view of Gwen's apartment to contrast it with the mess of Alex's room, but it ended up with lots of empty, boring space that doesn't draw the eye along very well.

The reason I'm planning on redoing these but am posting them anyway is because I'm barely a foot into the story yet and kind of want to keep moving. So, sometimes, when I spend too long drawing and redrawing a panel or just can't figure out what to put somewhere, I put something down quick and move on with plans to change it later. Just so that I don't get stuck and stall on this project.

Mostly, what I'm looking for for these pages as far as criticism is if the dialogue and flow makes sense. I had to cut a lot out of the main text of the original story and sort of move stuff around, so I just want to make sure it still has merit to what has happened so far. Also, I want it to be interesting - the art AND the writing - so any opinions on that would be helpful as well.


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Re: TOKoR Comic: Update - 6/9

Post by Klikxx on Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:50 am

I love all the attitude exuded by Gwen. This expressiveness is worth a thousand words. Facial expressions, body language, she has it all.

I think the flow and dialoge made complete sense and was able to follow it quite well not having any real influence from the original text(it has been a while). I was wondering if you plan to use colored panels at all. Even simple splashes here or there could help lead the reader where you want. Even simple usages such as distinguishing dialoge boxes of Alex and Xander on top of the soft edge/jagged edge technique can identify the Jekyll/Hyde change in speaker. You might even find that the simple use of color will direct the eye where you want it in Gwen's apartment saving you the trouble of reworking the panel.
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Re: TOKoR Comic: Update - 6/9

Post by Guest on Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:58 am

Thank you, Klikxx. Smile

Yes, I eventually hope to ink and color the entire thing. First, I want to get as far into the story with the rough pages as I can before I stop and attempt any ink and color work.

I totally didn't think of that with Gwen's apartment - so far, I've been relying on trying to make each panel as dynamic as I possibly can without much thought given to eventual colors. But that's definitely a good idea!

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Re: TOKoR Comic: Update - 6/9

Post by Guest on Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:17 pm

Comic 010

Comic 011

Comic 012

Xander's first appearance in the comic! Yaaay! Just a minor puppetry and I'm HOPING it's obvious what is happening - Xander takes control of Alex's body to shout "He's hurting me!" obviously in an attempt to rattle the neighbors and make Alex's life difficult.

As always, I'm worried about the flow of things - specifically Gwen's inner thoughts. In the actual post of the role-play she thinks very little before we hit a certain point, so I've been making stuff up to fill in the blanks and make sure her presence, eavesdropping through the joined wall, is still present for what happens later.

But I totally screwed up on Comic 012(the bottom one in this set). For some reason, I thought it'd be a good idea to have Alex rub his hand over his face in a show of exhaustion AND that I should place these two panels one on top of the other rather than right next to each other. It made sense in my head and on the storyboard, but in actuality it makes for clunky reading. Not only that, but I attempted to shove a bunch of information into tiny panels.

So, I already know I kinda messed up on page 012, but any thoughts or suggestions are still welcomed and appreciated.

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Re: TOKoR Comic: Update - 6/9

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:31 am

Comic 013

Comic 014

Alright, so I usually put up three at a time but I kind of felt like this was the end of a "chapter" - next the comic focuses on Gwen for a little bit and when we come back to the boys some time has passed.

The middle panel in 013 was quoted almost directly from the story and I'm almost certain that it's too wordy. But with the progression of the conversation, I have no idea how or what to cut/edit/change in it. What do you guys think? Too wordy or is it okay? Any suggestions are welcomed.

Also, maybe I've just been staring at it for too long, but 014 seems odd around Gwen's part. In the story, she's curious and concerned while she listens through the wall - wondering if he's really being abused by someone or if he's just hurting himself. When Xander yells "Rrrrrraaaaaaaaape!" through the wall, she realizes/thinks that he's been saying things just to be an asshole and deliberately trying to annoy her. But I'm not sure if that reaction comes across in the comic.

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Re: TOKoR Comic: Update - 6/9

Post by Guest on Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:41 pm

Comic 015

Comic 016

Comic 017

Not very many notes this time. In the story, Gwen is a romance novelist; the original reason she stomps over to Alex's apartment is because she was typing a new book and his crashing around through the wall startled her and made her spill coffee on her laptop. Chronologically, it would have put the focus on Gwen in the beginning. It was VERY important to me to start with Xander though, so I completely chopped the first part of the story. I even had to take some of the internal dialogue out to make her lines shorter. So, it hasn't been clear until now that she's an author, but well...she is. And later on that fact gets expounded upon, so it's not just out of the blue, "Hm! I'll write a story about my freakish neighbor!"

I think, when I actually start coloring this, I'm going to need to do something to emphasize when Xander is taking over - like, in these pages, he takes over Alex's mouth to eat the pizza and then punches him in the chest when Alex has a coughing fit. But you can't really tell that without me making it obvious by the characters stating the fact and even then, I'm worried it's not clear.

And the top panel on page 017 is a really freaky face and I think I'm gonna change it when I redo everything.


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Re: TOKoR Comic: Update - 6/9

Post by Tartra on Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:14 pm

DON'T YOU DARE CHANGE THAT TOP PANEL, MADAM.

Only one tiny note because I'll forget if I don't write it now: For 014, Alex's reaction was more like a 'WTF ARE YOU DOING?! STOP MAKING NOISE FOR TEN SECONDS' rather than the 'Oh, Xander! :3' vibe I got. But as for the rest of it, Gwen's part came through crystal clear! I don't know why you even doubted yourself. Smile
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Re: TOKoR Comic: Update - 6/9

Post by Guest on Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:23 pm

Ah, noted. Smile Will make the change when I go back through for the final drafts.

Mostly it's the way I can't put everything in word for word like I can basically do for Alex's parts that makes me uncertain. Kinda like, "Okay, I gotta figure out how to translate this in actual thoughts and feelings rather than descriptions."

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Re: TOKoR Comic: Update - 6/9

Post by Klikxx on Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:50 pm

So let's see if I follow this right Pg 16 panel-2 is alex,panels-3,4,5 are indescriminate as no face is available for recognition but I am assuming Alex,
Pg 17 Panel 1 is alex,panel-2 is the first appearance of Xander,panel 3,4 are alex once again and panel 5 is indiscriminate but I am assuming alex.

I think I have a bit of an advantage posessing the knowledge of the eyebrows to distinguish so my observations may be skewed. Are you going to use a distinct change in eyecolor when Xander steps forward?? This would help immensly even if it is only a ring on the outside of the iris.

Depite what Tartra has indicated(I think we are talking about the same panel) If 17-2 is in fact the first appearance of Xander the expression should be much more sinister having taken control. The current expression of shock and worry?? is confusion to me. Such an expession would come from Alex realizing what is happening.

One other inquiry. The dialog boxes, jagged edges for Xander, soft edges for Alex. Would it be safe to assume that the person in control of the body at the time is using dialog boxes and the roomate is a thought, not heard by others. If this is the case square boxes(thought dots) leading to Xander's jagged boxes when he is not in control may be an option to help distinquish who is in control because the jagged boxes change slightly(the removal of the squares indicating thought replaced with the traditional extended "V" ) when his voice is actually heard by the general public.

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Re: TOKoR Comic: Update - 6/9

Post by Guest on Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:20 pm

Okay, so far in the comic Xander has taken complete control and spoken out loud only twice - first time is on page 010 when he yells "He's hurting me!" and on page 014 when he yells "Rrrrrrrraaaaape!". I tried to show this by making the speech bubbles have darkened lines around them, but since you were confused about it(and so was my husband when I first showed him) I might have to do something else for it. But the way his eyebrows and eyes are drawn is how his face will "change" when he takes control. Alex has actual round irises and more rectangular shaped eyes. Xander has tiny black dots in more half-circle shaped eyes. So any time that you see a rounded iris that is white(because there's no color in these yet) that is Alex. When they're tiny and black, that's Xander.

Xander:


Alex:


When I color these, I'm thinking of using certain shades and tones and color sets to indicate when Xander takes over. Meaning, the colors of the panels will have a slight greenish or reddish tone(haven't decided what colors to give Xander and will have to ask Tartra for her input on it). But Xander takes control of certain body parts without occupying the full form - I often accompany these instances with a bit of "twitching". On page 016 Xander demands to be fed and Alex puts the piece of pizza near his face. Then Xander takes control of his mouth and takes a bite(which is why Alex thinks in the next panel "Good, I'll let him eat it"). On page 017, when Alex has a coughing fit, Xander "helps" him out by giving him a firm punch in the chest - hence Alex's "Thanks." comment. All of the rest of the panels - with a few struggles for control here and there - are Alex.

Xander's actual speech bubbles when he's speaking aloud , I was thinking of doing something like this:


(BTW, this is from a comic called Eudaemon)

Kinda more "blocky" with a darkened edge around it and Xander's font would be used for anything he "says" out loud. That's why I gave him that font to distinguish him from everybody else. And I thought the dialogue boxes having a small "arrow" would be enough of an indication that he has spoken aloud - especially when I'll most likely draw Xander's face changed whenever he's talking. Also, I tried to emphasize as much as possible that when his internal dialogue is in the "jagged boxes" nobody can hear him by having Gwen repeat several times that she can't hear anybody talking or responding to Alex. I was going to continue this, having Gwen respond when Xander talks out loud and "ignore" him when he talks in Alex's head - and everybody would react that way to Xander's internal dialogue.

In the next pages, Xander and Alex will be talking out loud back and forth a lot more and the differences in eyes and appearance of the boxes may make things easier to understand.

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Re: TOKoR Comic: Update - 6/9

Post by Tartra on Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:19 pm

I was talking about page 14. Page 17 is all Alex.
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Re: TOKoR Comic: Update - 6/9

Post by Guest on Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:07 am

Comic 018

Comic 019

Comic 020

Alright, so Xander actually takes control in these pages and since a bit of confusion was already brought up by Klixkk, I just wanna know - is it any clearer now? I just wanna make sure that it's not confusing. The biggest part of this story is Alex and Xander and their relationship and how they occupy the same form. If I can't get it across when he is and isn't in control/talking(WITHOUT needing to explain everything), then I need to change or do something different; it's part of the biggest hurdle in trying to translate this in a comic form. If I need to do the darkened lines around the panels whenever Xander is controlling something in order to make it clear, then I will.

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Re: TOKoR Comic: Update - 6/9

Post by Guest on Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:00 am

Comic 024

Comic 025

Comic 026

Hoping that with the two of them side-by-side, it will immediately set the stage for being able to distinguish between the two.

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Re: TOKoR Comic: Update - 6/9

Post by Guest on Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:44 pm

Comic 024

Comic 025

Comic 026 WIP

Alright, I'm not too happy with these pages. page 24, I'm going to change the top right panel - the hand motion and expression came out a little awkward - and the bottom right...thing with his face. I don't know what I was thinking putting in "frown" as an onomatopoeia...

I completely ruined and messed up on page 26 with...everything, but mostly the words. I didn't want to have her start getting ideas to study him for her book this early. But after the extremely dramatic bottom panel on page 25, I felt like I had to bring her back down a couple of emotional notches so she'd be comfortable enough to even answer the door. And in the end...none of it makes sense. Too early. Too dramatic. Too choppy.

Again, it's the difficulty of how I wrote the actual post that necessitates changing things like this and I think, it'll be easier, especially with Alex's whole internal dialogue with Xander, if I focus on his thoughts instead of hers(at least most of the time). It'll be less overwhelming with thought bubbles - thought bubbles for him, thought bubbles for her, Xander boxes, etc.!!! - and I won't keep messing up with stuff like this.

Just so you can all see what I'm talking about with "translating" Gwen's thoughts into something fit for the graphic novel, here's the excerpt of the scene on page 26(and a little bit of page 22):
Spoiler:

When the knock came against her door, she jumped and stared at it as if it were an alien creature she'd never seen before. Shaking her head she quickly jumped up and ran to the door, her eye instantly fitting snugly against the peep hole. Seeing the distorted form of her neighbor standing before it, she quickly ducked her head below the tiny hole, her hand covering her mouth to stop her from choking aloud. She stood like that, huddled against her door for several moments, hearing his characteristic murmuring on the other side, before she peeked up into the hole again, pressing her lips together anxiously.

For several moments, she contemplated pretending she wasn't here, but there was another part of her that was eager to figure out why he was here. She'd already decided when she'd started writing that if he didn't leave his apartment by tomorrow night, she was going to go over there again and introduce herself. Possibly follow him if he ever did leave and stalk him for a bit. For her writing of course. Now, it would seem he was making the first move and she wouldn't have to. To deny the opportunity to speak with him face to face again, after the inspiration he'd given her the first time would be foolish.

Clearing her throat, she stepped back from the door and adjusted herself, considering putting on her sweatshirt again, but decided against it. She didn't look too bad, just sort of casual in her white tank top and weathered jeans, both snugly fitting her thin curves. Adjusting her long, wavy hair on her shoulders, she stepped forward and opened the door. Blue eyes blinked in a bit of surprise as her gaze took him in for a third time and she got a better look at his full body this time. Trailing down, she quirked an eyebrow as she saw the pizza box, her eyes zooming back up to his face in a bored fashion. "More renovating?" she asked with a quirk of her lips, referring to her previous rant where she'd asked him to tell her when he'd be banging around in the future.

There is nothing in that except her actual dialogue that I can simply cut and paste into the comic inserting it into a thought bubble for her. Neutral

As always, I'm open to suggestions and criticisms.


Note: From now on, I'm just going to be typing Xander's words. I use something called "AR CHRISTY" in Paint for typing and as a reference - I type his dialogue in a box in Paint and then sit there and draw it with my pad held up in front of my face. Not only does it put my drawing hand into awkward positions but my left hand holding the drawing pad is strained as well - it's so I can look back and forth without having to move my head. So. Typing.


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Re: TOKoR Comic: Update - 6/9

Post by Tartra on Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:12 pm

I don't see why you don't go for more reaction shots. It's a good way to slow things down, let a beat pass between each panel and let the emotions show themselves before leaping into the next thing. Gwen could have an entire page to herself where she doesn't talk because the focus is on doing stuff (For the blurb you put up, it could've been her looking through the hole, her choking and ducking away from the peephole, kind of warily peeking through the peephole again, and THEN her '... IDEA!!' moment. Then you could've done her checking her clothes quickly with 'blah, blah, blah, do I look okay, blah'.) Basically, you don't have to rely on the dialogue. Razz

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Re: TOKoR Comic: Update - 6/9

Post by Guest on Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:22 pm

0_0

You make it so easy and everything. I DO have a tendency to over-complicate things and over-explain. And you already know from my FB post that I also have a tendency to get over-excited and rush things.

And thank you for the advice despite your temporary self-ban. ^^; Hug

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Re: TOKoR Comic: Update - 6/9

Post by Tartra on Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:29 pm

Hahaha - I just have an advantage because I was 'there' when you wrote your posts. I got to feel all the emotion in Gwen and I think I've told you several times before that was the main difference between your posts and mine: mine are always stuck on dialogue whereas yours actually focus on what the character is doing. I don't want you to lose that, so don't forget that reaction shots bring the feeling back into what you're doing. THE ART IS BEAUTIFUL DON'T EVER STOP, but if you go back through my endless gushing of how great you are, you'll find my favourites are always the ones where it's just pure emotion. Smile

... That doesn't count as a review at all.
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Re: TOKoR Comic: Update - 6/9

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:14 am

Comic 026

Comic 027

Comic 028

Alright, completely redid page 26 and spread it out over 3 pages instead of shoving it all into one. The new page 26, I'm actually thinking it'd make more sense to put the top right panel on page 22 instead, but for now, I'll leave it as is and move on. Been working too much on this page as it is! Do things make more sense now?

As always, suggestions or opinions are welcomed!


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Re: TOKoR Comic: Update - 6/9

Post by Tartra on Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:18 am

Now that's what I'm talkin' 'bout! Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy And I'm really glad you didn't take out the two middle panels on page 27. Sneaky Gwen!
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Re: TOKoR Comic: Update - 6/9

Post by Guest on Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:24 am

Yeah, I thought I'd leave 'em in because in the post, she's already decided to start using him for her story. I figure, I'll stop worrying so much about explaining things IN the comic and just stay close to how the role-play actually is. Besides, more expressions is more fun! I love drawing people! Very Happy


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